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Old 07-17-2018, 08:23 PM
Caudill1

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Cci mini mag Q



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Need some help here. After looking at some ballistic calculators for cci mini mag hv I zeroed at 25 yards (main rifle use for appleseeds). I then expected to be on or a little high at 50 but dropped 2-3 MOA. Does this sound normal to you folks with more rimfire experience than I? Center of peep sight is 1.25 from mid bore best I can tell. I expected to be high at 50 so I would be able to switch from center target sight picture at 25 to pumpkin on post at 50. Even at center target I was 2-3 moa low and am confused. When I put all info into calculator (i was careful to enter everything correctly from ammo to weather)it looked like I should be high or right on at 50.

Cci mini hv 1235
25 yard zero
Sight height 1.25
89 degrees
58 humidity

Have a tactical solutions 16.5 in barrel and skinner peep sights .04 aperture. Groups were in a quarter at 25 and a gold dollar at 50.

Any thoughts would be much sppreciated.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:46 PM
profsrgary

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I ran the numbers listed and came up with -.38" and 0.72 moa. at 50 yds if zeroed at 25 yards.
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2018, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caudill1 View Post
Need some help here. After looking at some ballistic calculators for cci mini mag hv I zeroed at 25 yards (main rifle use for appleseeds). I then expected to be on or a little high at 50 but dropped 2-3 MOA. Does this sound normal to you folks with more rimfire experience than I? Center of peep sight is 1.25 from mid bore best I can tell. I expected to be high at 50 so I would be able to switch from center target sight picture at 25 to pumpkin on post at 50. Even at center target I was 2-3 moa low and am confused. When I put all info into calculator (i was careful to enter everything correctly from ammo to weather)it looked like I should be high or right on at 50.

Cci mini hv 1235
25 yard zero
Sight height 1.25
89 degrees
58 humidity

Have a tactical solutions 16.5 in barrel and skinner peep sights .04 aperture. Groups were in a quarter at 25 and a gold dollar at 50.

Any thoughts would be much sppreciated.
Maybe this will help, maybe not.

When I first began shooting .22 rimfire (squirrel and rabbit hunting).... I bought a new 6X scope for my rifle. I had asked my Dad (an avid squack hunter and rimfire BR guy) how best to sight-in my new scope, as I didn't own a boresighter.

He said to set up a target, and stand or sit in the position (and at the same height) as I would for hunting. He said place the target at 25 FEET. Doesn't matter if the target itself, is 3ft off the ground.... or 5ft off the ground. Once you adjust the scope so that POA and POI are the same on THAT target at 25 feet, it will be within an inch (usually 1/2" or less) of same POI at 50 yards. The bullet passes thru that 'point' TWICE while in flight... at 25 feet and at 50 yards. It will rise to about 3/4" to 1" at 25 yards. He was right.

Last edited by GREEN607; 07-17-2018 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:02 PM
Caudill1

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Originally Posted by profsrgary View Post
I ran the numbers listed and came up with -.38" and 0.72 moa. at 50 yds if zeroed at 25 yards.
Yeah, you are right. that's what I come up with after correcting the sight height and weather. Still confused about the darn near 3 moa. If my groups weren't so on at 25 I'd blame it on poor shooting. Maybe I'm a touch low on my zero. I'll have to play with it I suppose. Thanks!

Last edited by Caudill1; 07-17-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:04 PM
Caudill1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEN607 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caudill1 View Post
Need some help here. After looking at some ballistic calculators for cci mini mag hv I zeroed at 25 yards (main rifle use for appleseeds). I then expected to be on or a little high at 50 but dropped 2-3 MOA. Does this sound normal to you folks with more rimfire experience than I? Center of peep sight is 1.25 from mid bore best I can tell. I expected to be high at 50 so I would be able to switch from center target sight picture at 25 to pumpkin on post at 50. Even at center target I was 2-3 moa low and am confused. When I put all info into calculator (i was careful to enter everything correctly from ammo to weather)it looked like I should be high or right on at 50.

Cci mini hv 1235
25 yard zero
Sight height 1.25
89 degrees
58 humidity

Have a tactical solutions 16.5 in barrel and skinner peep sights .04 aperture. Groups were in a quarter at 25 and a gold dollar at 50.

Any thoughts would be much sppreciated.
Maybe this will help, maybe not.

When I first began shooting .22 rimfire (squirrel and rabbit hunting).... I bought a new 6X scope for my rifle. I had asked my Dad (an avid squack hunter and rimfire BR guy) how best to sight-in my new scope, as I didn't own a boresighter.

He said to set up a target, and stand or sit in the position (and at the same height) as I would for hunting. He said place the target at 25 FEET. Doesn't matter if the target itself, is 3ft off the ground.... or 5ft off the ground. Once you adjust the scope so that POA and POI are the same on THAT target at 25 feet, it will be within an inch (usually 1/2" or less) of same POI at 50 yards. The bullet passes thru that 'point' TWICE while in flight... at 25 feet and at 50 yards. It will rise to about 3/4" to 1" at 25 yards. He was right.
I will certainly keep this in mind if I switch the main purpose of the rifle from 25 yard appleseed events to small game hunting. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:18 AM
profsrgary

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Originally Posted by Caudill1 View Post
Yeah, you are right. that's what I come up with after correcting the sight height and weather. Still confused about the darn near 3 moa. If my groups weren't so on at 25 I'd blame it on poor shooting. Maybe I'm a touch low on my zero. I'll have to play with it I suppose. Thanks!
Here is a trick I used before I had a chronograph. Zero in at 50 yards then shoot at 100 yards. measure groups center to center. If the meas. is what the calculator says it should be your bullet is traveling at that speed. If not punch in lower or higher velocities to get the correct meas. Now you have a pretty good idea of your velocity. You can use any distances you would like but these calculators are based on velocity and if you don't have it correct they don't work. The velocities are often not as advertised in my particular rifles. This is also a good way to see if a chronograph is off.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:36 PM
Caudill1

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Originally Posted by profsrgary View Post
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Originally Posted by Caudill1 View Post
Yeah, you are right. that's what I come up with after correcting the sight height and weather. Still confused about the darn near 3 moa. If my groups weren't so on at 25 I'd blame it on poor shooting. Maybe I'm a touch low on my zero. I'll have to play with it I suppose. Thanks!
Here is a trick I used before I had a chronograph. Zero in at 50 yards then shoot at 100 yards. measure groups center to center. If the meas. is what the calculator says it should be your bullet is traveling at that speed. If not punch in lower or higher velocities to get the correct meas. Now you have a pretty good idea of your velocity. You can use any distances you would like but these calculators are based on velocity and if you don't have it correct they don't work. The velocities are often not as advertised in my particular rifles. This is also a good way to see if a chronograph is off.
Thanks! This will be my next step if I cant figure it out.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:50 PM
rawhp
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Are you sure about your height above bore for you sight? Since you're shooting open sights, you should be able to directly measure the height of the front sight (rear sight should only be very slightly higher when zeroed at 25). The lower it is, the greater the effect of you observation. Measuring using my caliper, I got about 0.65" above bore for the front sight, so using that as the approximation, the ballistics calculator came up with 0.99" low at 50 or ~MOA). The 0.65" was from center of the bore to center of the bead.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the part that it's not a factory barrel, so I'm guess the Skinner is a receiver mount rather than dovetail.

Last edited by rawhp; 07-18-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:21 AM
Caudill1

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Originally Posted by rawhp View Post
Are you sure about your height above bore for you sight? Since you're shooting open sights, you should be able to directly measure the height of the front sight (rear sight should only be very slightly higher when zeroed at 25). The lower it is, the greater the effect of you observation. Measuring using my caliper, I got about 0.65" above bore for the front sight, so using that as the approximation, the ballistics calculator came up with 0.99" low at 50 or ~MOA). The 0.65" was from center of the bore to center of the bead.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the part that it's not a factory barrel, so I'm guess the Skinner is a receiver mount rather than dovetail.
Yeah, it's a receiver mount peep sight. Center from bore to center of peep is 1.25
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:27 PM
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Just zero it again at 50 yards and don't worry about it. Then do 25 after 50 and not the other way around. As Green sorta said, there's a near zero and a far zero (going up and going down). It's hard to get a far zero at 25 yards but with no scope maybe it's possible.

The other rules of thumb re 25 feet, 50/100 yards, etc. might work sometimes but there are a lot of variables including BC (Ballistic Coefficient) which affects velocity and the fact that the trajectory is so flat at 50 yards and for some distance either side of 50 yards that a "50-yard zero" could easily be anywhere from 35-40 up to maybe 60.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:33 PM
profsrgary

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Measure the front sight ht off of barrel. meas. barrel dia. divide barrel by 2 to get half of barrel dia. then add 1/2 of barrel dia. to sight ht to get true sight over bore. This dimension never changes whereas the rear peep does.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2018, 08:20 AM
Caudill1

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Originally Posted by profsrgary View Post
Measure the front sight ht off of barrel. meas. barrel dia. divide barrel by 2 to get half of barrel dia. then add 1/2 of barrel dia. to sight ht to get true sight over bore. This dimension never changes whereas the rear peep does.
Wow. That should have been obvious. Kinda feel like an idiot for measuring the rear sight I adjust now. Doh!
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