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  #1  
Old 03-28-2020, 04:34 PM
bdriscole
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not a rimfire question but small caliber Anschutz question



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I have a 1730 in 22 Hornet sense 2006. Purchased it used and was glade to fine one in left hand. I put about 250 round through it back then even tagged a few ground hogs with it. Then life being what it is it was put in the safe, not forgotten but not used either. I retired in 2016 and last year I pulled it out and started reloading for it. About half the rounds chambered the other didn't. Because I was in match season and I lost the farm I hunted, back into the safe it went. I pulled it out this week determined to figure out what is the problem. What I have found out is the SAAMI spec for the base of the case is .298". Any case I have that measures .291" (chamber nicely) to .293" (is a little tight but chambers) works. Any case over .293" simply will not chamber and it quite difficult to get back out if the bolt is pushed to hard. I have turned .020" off the shell holder in hopping to to get the case into the FL sizing die enough to size it done to below .293". That has not worked. It seems to me that the chamber was not cut quite deep enough. Any thoughts.

Thanks. Bob
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:07 PM
jrose
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Does a factory round chamber ok?
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2020, 03:40 AM
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Some cases need to be full length sized. My 22-250's that I used to have, they all needed full length sized every time, but my .243 and .223 just needed neck sized. Even if you got new brass, they should be full length sized before you do anything, then trimmed and then start loading.

Now to your obvious issues.... what is the case length, and what is a factory case length that fit years ago? May not be the chamber in the gun, but a bad die. If factory loads worked, it should not be a chamber issue, but a die issue. If you have the stuff to make a casting of your die, do that then measure it, and compare to a factory case. There is an overall large size maximum, but when dealing with target chambers, even with an Anschutz centerfire, you have to have good dies to size them properly.
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Old 03-29-2020, 06:07 AM
Andyd is online now
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If you reload for a German gun, you have to be aware that Germany is a CIP member country and not using SAAMI standards.Yet the dimension are comparable, 0.2988189 inches. Gizzy gave you good advice.

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/td...-en-page56.pdf

Last edited by Andyd; 03-29-2020 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 03-29-2020, 08:27 AM
bdriscole
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Gizzy, All cases were full length sized using Redding Competition dies. Rim thickness are +/- .001" on cases that fit and do not fit. All case have been trimmed to length spec. of 1.393" (.010" under spec. of 1.403"). I have marked the mouth of a few case with a sharpie and tried to chamber in hopes of seeing a contact mark on the neck, nothing. I'm going to shorten a few case to see if that makes a difference. But to date, the only variation in the case is the diameter at the base.

Bob
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:06 AM
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Maybe call Anschutz of North America and maybe they know of a brand of die you need to size them to fit that super tight chamber. If all else fails, take it to a GOOD smith, and have the chamber re-cut to SAAMI standards.

I use Redding competition dies myself. So its not the dies. Do you use a good cast iron O press? Just a thought. If you are like me, you do. I use a Sinclair arbor press and Wilson bullet seaters as well.
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:37 AM
bdriscole
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Gizzy, I've been using a RCBS press sense I started reloading, a vary long time ago. No issues there. I did send a email to Anschutz NA on Friday hopefully they wont take to long responding. As far as smiting goes I've been building my own match rifle the number of years.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2020, 04:31 PM
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bdriscole, since you did not mention any difficulty with chambering your first 250 rounds when firing (assume factory loaded ammunition?) I don't think your Anschutz factory chamber is out of spec. It may indeed be slightly on the snug side compared to the normal SAMMI spec, due to the different European standard, but I have never experienced that issue with other European makes using standard Redding dies. The chamber may be cut just slightly short, but your testing with the trimmed case mouths not having any interference seems to negate that. Your experience building your own match rifles tells me you have good understanding of how to set up and use your resizing dies correctly. Let's look at the case mouth of your loaded rounds VS. factory ammo. Does your loaded neck diameter correspond with the factory measurement? Re-check that your bullet seating die is adjusted correctly and you are not slightly bulging the case neck when you seat the bullet. I'm guessing you are loading flat base .22 Hornet bullets, correct? Be sure the case necks have a good chamfer on the inside to ease the bullets straight into the case mouth. Also, the tip of the bullet seater may not mate with your particular bullet profile well, causing a tiny bit of bulging/excessive runout around the case mouth. If these seem to be within spec, you may have to have a small base die cut for your Hornet. A chamber cast would give you the definitive answer on the measurements. Please post your findings; this is very curious to me, too. Good luck.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:53 AM
bdriscole
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Steve, thanks for the input. I have learned over the years, but seem to forget sometimes and overlook at the obvious. Right now the cases I'm trying are just sized, no bullets seated. My dummy round (seated bullet) chambers nicely. I'll check the dimensions. I generally do not crimp rifle rounds, but will give that a try as well. The bullets are both flat and boat tailed. I'll check neck thickness as well.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:16 PM
bdriscole
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Steve, I took 10 cases each of those that fit and those that don't and measured OAL, neck diameter (after sizing), neck wall thickness, case base diameter and rim thickness. AOL is within, .1393" and that's .010", under case length for both types. Trimmed with a Wilson trimmer. The neck diamter were .234", consistent among all cases. What I would expect with Redding dies. Case wall thickness were essential the same, .008" all cases. Base diameter for cases that fit was .293", for case that didn't fit it was .296". Rim thickness .161" (fit) and .162" (no fit).

In addition to the original dummy round I Keep to set up dies if I have to make changes I loaded two more. 1 with a flat bottom and 1 with a boat tail. case length for the ranges from 1.393" to 1.399" These are actual case length not overall cartridge length. Outside neck diameter for loaded rounds were .241". Case Base diameter is .293". All these cases chamber nicely.

I got to looking around and found a box of fired cases and measured those and the fell within the measurements of the cases that fit.

For now I think I'll go through and find the case that fit and pitch the rest. then order new brass. I did notice cases that did one fit, the majority were Winchester. although there were R-P as well.

If I hear anything from Anschutz I'll pass it on.

Bob
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2020, 01:58 AM
Steve Newman

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Hey Bob, glad you're looking over and measuring all the aspects of your cases. FWIW I never crimp varmint caliber rounds when bullet seating either..I think you get more consistent neck tension (and more consistent accuracy) by not using the crimping feature on the bullet seating die. I do know early Hornet barrels used .223 diameter bores and bullets, rather than modern Hornets, which use standard .22 CF bullets of .224 diameter. Try making a dummy round with one of the cases that won't chamber...I'm thinking the case necks themselves are the problem somehow, not the cartridge body taper itself. On the flat base bullets, be sure to inside chamfer the case necks real well....they can be problematic because they are relatively short and are hard to get started perfectly centered by the seating die. I think you are wise to start with new brass; But go ahead and full length size the new brass to get them all as identical as possible. Good luck.

Last edited by Steve Newman; 04-02-2020 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:37 AM
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You could also blacken (an unfilled) case with a candle or sharpie and carefully chamber it to see where the interference is. Could your case shoulders need bumping back a bit?
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:29 PM
pipestone
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Could your case shoulders need bumping back a bit?



Don't get rid of your brass quite yet



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  #14  
Old 04-02-2020, 01:49 PM
bdriscole
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Well guys I'm back form the range this morning. Before leaving I took all 200 case and checked them to see which would fit and which would not. I randomly selected 30 cases that fit and loaded them. All 30 chambered nicely. After firing they all re-chambered nicely. I wish I could say I'm genius for solving a great problem I had stumbled upon, but its like I said earlier, sometimes just you overlook the obvious. Of the 200 cases, the 36 had all been in one box, the box I just happen to take off the shelf to work with. The other 164 worked just fine. As to where these 36 cases came from, only the brass gremlins know and their not talking. At least all this head scratching has given me something to do these last few days. The 36 are in the crap bucket.

Bob
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:00 PM
Steve Newman

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Bob, glad the mystery is solved! Do you remember where the 36 rogue cases that won't chamber originated from? Just a SWAG, if they were given to you from a previous shooter/reloader, is it possible the cases could be of the K Hornet variety? The "K" Hornet was a once popular improved version of the standard Hornet that isn't seen a lot today. Even after FL sizing, the former K cases may be out of spec due to the once extended shoulder/neck junction. At any rate, happy shooting with your Hornet.

Last edited by Steve Newman; 04-03-2020 at 03:53 PM.
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