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  #1  
Old 11-19-2004, 06:59 PM
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HM2 replace 22LR?



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That's a flame starter of a subject

Now, not that 22LR is going away, but let me look at a few things. You have to really try hard to get an accurate 22LR. But you have to try really hard to get an inaccurate .17HMR,... and from what I've been reading, sounds like the HM2 is accurate too. Is this due to quality control, or is it just easier to make a standard bullet accurate rather than the 22LR with it's heeled rearend? How much harder is it to manufacture the HM2 over the 22LR? I know a lot of people like to argue that there isn't a place for the HM2 since there is already the 22LR and .17HMR, but with the accuracy issue, I'm kinda thinking scrap the 22LR, and replace it with the HM2. There may not be a market for two cartridges filling the same place(squirrel hunting), but there is a market for a better bullet. The trajectory is sweet on the HM2!

I don't have one yet, but I'm looking into barrel options for my gun....or another gun. Like I said, I doubt the 22LR will go away, but if the HM2 got popular enough to bring the price down, I'd say replace the 22LR.

My current favorite 22LR round is the Aguila Super Maximum, and the HM2 seems to fill everything the SM lacks..... like a decent BC.

Gene
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:24 PM
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The HM2 is a great round but it will never replace the .22lr

There is room in my heart for the both of them.
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Old 11-19-2004, 07:44 PM
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The more the merrier Personally I was really not interested in the little Mach 2. But, you know, I just kinda can't get that little round off my mind. Got out my Remington Nylon 11 bolt action and am looking at what it would take to convert it to M2. Then today I found a barrel for it for $46......uh oh. Let me see......reline the least accurate of the two barrels (it is kinda a collectors rifle) so I can always put it back to stock.........I think I'm infected.......M2 desease!!!!

But you know what? I still have 22itis


OH WELL
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2004, 11:50 PM
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The HM2 will never replace the .22 long rifle. It will create a new niche, and expand the market for rimfire shooters. Just like adding new centerfire calibers.
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2004, 07:31 PM
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Was it not a .22 that started the whole Brady handgun laws?
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Old 11-20-2004, 09:11 PM
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I don't think the HM2 will ever be able to compete with the 22LR in terms of popularity due to the price of ammo. Unless they can get ammo down to $1-$2 per 50rds (which I don't see happening), the 22LR is still going to be the most popular choice for the "average" shooter.

For those who are more well-informed than "average" and truly care about accuracy, ballistics, and terminal performance, it could be a close call, so I'm not willing to hazard a guess at this point.

Myself, I don't have a 17HM2 yet, I'm just waiting to make sure any potential bugs have been worked out and let the intial craze die down a bit. However, the 17HM2 seems like it could be an extremely good choice for small game hunting, which is the main reason why I'm interested in it.

Chad
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Old 11-21-2004, 11:12 PM
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What they need to do with the 22 is let Hornady/CCI start making the same v-max bullets in 22 cal and start putting Green Mountain blanks on all production 22's. Then you would see some awesome groups out of cheap ole 22's. Just my opinion for what it is worth. According to quicktdoo Green Mountain makes the barrels for Marlin and NEF 17's. And we know how they shoot. I can see it now the new 22HM2. Hey what an idea!

Last edited by brad541thb; 11-21-2004 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 11-22-2004, 12:14 AM
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Aguila SM in a ballistic tip configuration either, but it will still not be a boat tail. Would still be cool though.

Gene
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad541thb
What they need to do with the 22 is let Hornady/CCI start making the same v-max bullets in 22 cal and start putting Green Mountain blanks on all production 22's. Then you would see some awesome groups out of cheap ole 22's. Just my opinion for what it is worth. According to quicktdoo Green Mountain makes the barrels for Marlin and NEF 17's. And we know how they shoot. I can see it now the new 22HM2. Hey what an idea!
Chief Says . CCI already makes 22 cal bullets . Theres no magic in what is called V-Max.
Green Mountain could supply Ruger with .920 barrels . No magic there either.

Why can the 17HMR be so accurate against the 22 caliber.
The weight of the bullet = 17 grs. not 30 + grs.
The velocity = fast 2600 fps not 1200 fps.
The 17 cal is a full metal jacketed bullet , the 22 cal. is lead.
The cost of the 17 cal. is about 4 times the cost of the 22 cal..

So GM could supply the barrels ( need diff stock. .920 chl) . That would
add about $175 to the 10-22 price ( $150+$175= $325).
Then you will still need to shoot $6.00+ per box ammo.
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Old 11-22-2004, 11:26 AM
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The little .17 rimfires are very interesting, and for the most part very accurate. However I really don't think they will kill off the good 'ole .22 LR or even .22 short. The price of .17 RF ammo compared with regular .22 LR ammo will have a large impact. They might give the .22 Win Magnum some competition sometime down the road.

DAVID
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:12 PM
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Chief-

I have to disagree with part of what you said (or I'm misunderstanding you) - look at the most accurate .22 rounds - they aren't the fast ones, they are the slower ones. Competitive shooters use rounds that run right around 1000fps - even less with some brands. So clearly fast does not equal more accurate, no?

Cheers,

BBD
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:39 PM
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I still think my idea would work especially for the cheaper end 22's. Heck, they should only be more accurate. Chief, the Marlin 917V $180 at wally world. If Marlin can do this with a Green Mountain barrel, why can't others for around $300 or less and maybe just a a little more for the better quality guns? It just may happen, who knows! If the copper jacket makes that much difference in the accuracy, then they could do the same for the 22 bullet and make it jacketed as well.

Last edited by brad541thb; 11-26-2004 at 01:14 AM.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2004, 04:42 AM
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.17 vs. .22?

Hi guys, I'm just finding you for the first time, after deciding on building my first gun ever, a .22??.....er, rimfire.
After seeing the incredible accuracy of the HM2 compared to any .22, and its increased effective range, I decided to sell my new .22 bull barrel, and give E.A. Brown a call.
Being totally new to this whole deal, I'm asking "Why didn't they do this a long time ago?
I saw a post where someone was talking about the cruelty of using a small gun to shoot a coyote, and I'm all about not being cruel to animals, but it seems to me that the game has changed considerably. Now, you could EASILY put a bullet in his eye at 125 yards, where before, with a .22lr, it would be a dream shot to brag about for years to come.
Am I missing something here? I'm not buying the difference in cost of ammo as any kind of issue, because we're talking about not very much at all.
What is there not to like better about the HM2?
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2004, 01:34 PM
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Nothing will ever replace the 22LR. The 17HMR and 17M2 will do better at certain tasks, but nothing will ever do away with 22LR.

I was shooting 22s and my 17HMR at Coke cans and such this weekend at my uncle's place. All the cousins were there and it was a big ol' shoot out.

The 22s would knock the targets into the air (which was fun/good) and you couldn't even tell if the 17 hit anything - every shot went right through the targets without moving them at all.

My uncle was shooting it (the 17HMR) at an empty 16 oz water bottle. 5 shots and it never moved. "I must be a terrible shot!" he exclaimed. We went and looked at the bottle and all 5 shots went right through it :-)

Needless to say for what we were doing the 22s were much more popular/fun that day.

Had we been shooting for best groups I'm sure the 17 would have been the big hit though.

Chris
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2004, 01:10 AM
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Sorry, I did not mean that I would ever literally take a shot like that, I was merely emphasizing the HM2's accuracy.....Now, if you wanted to be a butthead(or a lame brain ), you really can (literally) pick which orifice you want to shoot up into, and accomplish your goal with relative ease. Any varmit gives you at least 7 distinct choices! And, from my perspective, I didn't have to shoot for many years to become that good, the ballistics are helping me!
Saying the HM2 will replace the 22lr., is like saying a motor will replace the small block Chevrolet. It'll never happen. But how long does it take to switch barrels back and forth on a gun, and get it sighted in again? That's what I thought was so cool about it.
Greg
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