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  #16  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:11 PM
Rayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navybowhunter View Post
From personal experience, I would take what the CMP rules committee states with a grain of salt.

I am also in receipt of an email from CMP rules (think it is Michelle) that contradicts what you were told.

Bottom line, the MAGPUL stock is not "assymetrical" on the grip. A BlackHawk Axiom stock has an assymetrical grip...similar to that of an AR15.

Now....Big Picture....either way it is legal. T or Tactical ....whatever. Mine is T class simply due to I have a scope on my rifle.

T or Tactical had the same achievement medal cut last year. It "may" or "may not" have the same cut this year, will need to look in rulebook when that is published.

It really comes down to your own personal integrity, and what the CMP armorers say when they inspect your rifle. My experience at the BIG matches (Nationals and also Eastern Games)....they NEVER EVER weighed my rifle. They only checked the trigger weights.

Maybe they have in the past....but when I shoot Nationals and Eastern Games...I shoot pretty much every match and have no less than 7 or 8 rifles inspected upon check in at the same time.

Again, ask when you check in what class they think it should be.

The CMP rules people, are really not competitors.....they are primarily office people.

R/
Chris
The problem arises when you want to shoot in two classes and you take the magpul stock as your telescopic rifle and a M&P15 for your tactical. It doesn't matter if you have a scope on your magpul, that doesn't make it automatically a telescopic entry. If you get clarification from the CMP before hand and have that email in hand, if questioned about which class your rifle belongs it, that email will be honored. This way you won't be like my buddies and have two rifles placed in the same classification.

CMP's clarification had nothing to do with the grip being asymmetrical, or the depth of the tang. It had to do with the angle of the grip. The grip angle is too steep to be considered a sporter style rifle. I would be interested in seeing the email you received. Not that I don't believe you, please don't take it that way. I would be interested in what was said compared to what I received. Being able to use the magpul stock would keep a few of my friends from needing to purchase new stocks.

A standard sporter rifle generally is going to be under the weight requirements. It's when they see anything other than standard configuration (ex bull barrel) that they weigh it. One of my rifles was weighed this summer at Perry and the other wasn't. When I questioned why the one wasn't the armorer told me he knew a standard CZ was underweight.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:51 AM
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I would have to dig thru the emails, if I find it I will send it your way Rayne.

Either way, T or Tactical it is legal for use/competition.

And as stated, cuts were the same for both last year.

That could change, and were they to place me with my Magpul stock in Tactical...so be it. It is not that big of a deal.

The main point is it is a legal stock, what classification it falls into is not a concern for me personally.

As far as weighing rifles, my sporter rifle has a BBL and is in a Magpul stock. Again, NEVER in 3 years competing at Eastern Games and Nationals had I ever had the rifle weighed. It would easily make weight, but am saying I have never seen it done. Only thing I have seen done/experienced was a technical safety inspection which included a safety check and then the trigger was weighed and a piece of tape was affixed to the trigger guard, or a zip strip (blue) was attached to the sling swivel.

It is ultimately up to the competitor in the big matches (unless this changes) to check the appropriate classification on the score card, and up to the score keeper to verify that the rifle looks like what is checked on score card for classification. If there are any questions from the score keeper they can then get match staff involved. I have never seen any issues with this.

I believe I have shared the email with you before, on the AS forum....as we were going round and round over a thumbhole stock, and then I obtained the MAGPUL stock because of the thumbhole. True, having an email from CMP in your hand is a good way to counter a challenge.

I'll be checking "T" Class on my Magpul stock until someone specifically places something in the rule book stating it is Tactical. LOL Until CMP starts handling Rimfire Sporter like the Vintage Sniper matches (where the score cards are handed after inspection), it will always be up to the two that sign the score card. Scorer and Shooter.

Ideally, CMP could fix this by issuing scorecards after technical inspection and annotating what the CMPs take is on classification.

R/
Chris

Last edited by navybowhunter; 11-13-2018 at 08:54 AM. Reason: updated
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:13 AM
Rayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navybowhunter View Post
I would have to dig thru the emails, if I find it I will send it your way Rayne.

Only thing I have seen done/experienced was a technical safety inspection which included a safety check and then the trigger was weighed and a piece of tape was affixed to the trigger guard, or a zip strip (blue) was attached to the sling swivel.

I believe I have shared the email with you before, on the AS forum....as we were going round and round over a thumbhole stock, and then I obtained the MAGPUL stock because of the thumbhole. True, having an email from CMP in your hand is a good way to counter a challenge.

R/
Chris
What was the blue zip strip for? It's interesting the different experiences we've had at the same venue. Did you check in on Saturday or Sunday morning?

They weighed my bull barrel rifle, it's close on weight. They taped my scope, weighed my trigger and checked that my safety worked. On the CZ I had, all they did was weigh the trigger, affix a piece of tape to show it had been weighed and sent me on my way.

It wasn't me on the AS forum, I don't have an account on there. The email would help my buddies out that had a magpul and a tactical rifle, last year at Perry. It would keep them from having to get a different stock for the magpul rifle. If you can find it, we'd appreciate it.
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  #19  
Old 01-08-2019, 02:36 PM
Thermopylae480
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From CMP just now

"The Magpul X22 would be in the Tactical class because of the vertical pistol grip and the deep v notch in the stock. The 2018 rule book can be found at http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads...f?ver=07112018. Soon the 2019 rule book will be out with better explanation on the tactical/unlimited class. "
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2019, 05:39 AM
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An excerpt from the rule book:

8.1 Rimfire Sporter Competitions
8.1.1 Intent and Spirit
The intent and spirit of CMP Rimfire Sporter rules is to provide smallbore rifle
target competitions where competitors use low-cost, readily available sportertype, .22 caliber rimfire rifles. Any rifle configuration or item of equipment that
is not mentioned in these rules or that is contrary to the intent and spirit of
these rules is prohibited. The rifles and equipment permitted in Rimfire
Sporter Rifle Matches are strictly limited in order to prevent an “equipment
race” from occurring in the Rimfire Sporter discipline.

As a match director and competitor I enjoy watching the "equipment race."

Would a stock Sako Quad Pro with a Schmidt & Bender 6X42 Klassik benefit from Lilja barrel, Schmidt & Bender 6x42 PM II, and Bix’n Andy trigger upgrades ($2817 in total)? "Asking for a friend..."

See you at the range.
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  #21  
Old 01-09-2019, 08:33 AM
Thermopylae480
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2019

It's good that it is being addressed in the 2019. I hate the feeling that I might be "cheating" somehow.

The real reason I chose the Magpul was to get a proper LOP. I may get spacers for a Hogue stock and play around and see which I like better. The Magpul seems to allow the rifle to slide a bit and the way I hold it makes me worried about my hands slipping. I won't get that with the Hogue.

I only live three hours from Butner so I think I will take a few rifles up and have them inspected and shoot my first national rimfire match. That would be quite the experience for me. Gotta get the wife's permission.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2019, 02:31 PM
Thermopylae480
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2019 Cut Scores

=================================
Rimfire Sporter Rifle O - Class (open sights)

Gold 570+ Silver 556-569 Bronze 540-555

=================================
Rimfire Sporter Rifle T - Class (scope)

Gold 583+ Silver 572-582 Bronze 557-571

=================================
Rimfire Sporter Tactical Class

Gold 583+ Silver 570-582 Bronze 555-569

=================================

This year I was able to attend the CMP Eastern Games at Butner in April. I shot a 583-21X. Not my best but still Gold. That was an awesome experience for me.

This weekend (8-31-19) I shot like a girl. For the first match my score was 581-22X good enough for a high Silver. For the second match I shot a 593-31X. My highest score to date and one point away from our top shooter (a girl). I hope to continue to shoot like a girl. The rifle was a 10/22. Green Mountain 20" barrel, Magpul X22 stock and a SIG Whiskey3 scope.

9-21-19: It cooled enough for me to attend our regular rimfire match this weekend. We shot a 800 agg "bench". I decided to shoot prone using my Kimber 82G in a Boyds Tacticool stock. I used a versa-pod bipod and a Burris 14X Predator scope. The sun was i our eyes but temp was nice and little to no wind. Things started poorly and I had two sighters below the line before I realized it. Once I saw the shots, I adjusted the scope and got down to it. I ended up shooting my best score in that type match. 800-53X. 2019 has given me my two personal top scores all in one year.

Last edited by Thermopylae480; 09-21-2019 at 12:18 PM.
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