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  #61  
Old 07-23-2015, 10:28 PM
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I've been toying with buying an E2 for a while, the owner has it sitting aside for me, and I'll be in his neighborhood in a few weeks... hmm
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  #62  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:39 PM
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Thanks for those great pics LM, they'll make picking out the right mag from a box or pile a whole lot easier.
It's quite clear now, having bought the two rifles, why they were a bit of a bargain. Sourcing and buying mags is difficult and expensive. That said, I don't think I'd change my mind about buying them and I'll suck it up when I'm presented wth the bill for any mags that I find. In fact, the dealer I bought the rifles from contacted me today with the offer of an 8-round mag for around $54 equivalent. I've told him I'll have it as it'll DOUBLE the number of mags I have! Does anyone have experience with back orders from Triple K? I don't know how long it'll take to get a new batch of 15s made.

I still haven't laid hands on either rifle so I'm really itching to find out what that banana mag is and whether it actually works in the A series.

Keep the pics coming LM
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  #63  
Old 07-26-2015, 01:44 PM
Lakeside Machine

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Here is the next GevarM magazine that is most often encountered. This is a 20 round magazine that fits the E-series rifles. This 20 rounder does not fit any of the A-series rifles unless the magazine dwell is modified to accept it. It appears the engineers had an after thought in obtaining a higher capacity magazine when the E-series rifles were introduced. What is troubling is that the Beretta rifle magazine is an almost exact match for the Gevarm magazine. Did Gevelot use Berettas design or vice versa? The magazine in the middle is NOT a GevarM magazine, but made for the Beretta rifle. When I found this magazine the owner modified it to lock in an E series rifle but no doubt had difficulty making it eject correctly. This Beretta magazine is what led to my research in a direction not planned on and maybe led me to the fringe of a bizarre theory that I can not yet prove to be true. Maybe with some help here we can formulate a timeline that may hold enough evidence to confirm my suspicions.




Measuring the Beretta magazine, it is within a few thousandths of the Gevarm magazine dimensionally. Being a student of metalworking I looked into the actual manufacture method of the magazines. It appears that the body of these magazines are made from an accurately sized tubing blank and rolled into its final shape. They were probably rolled into a long length form and cut to specific length depending on capacity desired. The feed lips and floor plate forms were later made depending on desired function per model. There is no evidence of a weld or any weld flash of any kind. This makes the inside of the magazine body exceptionally smooth and burr free. The design is also shared with the shorter magazine capacity of the Beretta 10 shot versions. This same dimensional and manufacturing method magazine is also found in the Anschutz semi auto rifles and the Italian Marrochi rifles. All the dimensions are the same and they will interchange with each other nicely. So, if you are in deep need of a magazine for your Gevarm E-series rifle, an Anschutz semi auto, Sovereign SM64, Marrochi survival rifle magazine will work with the correct modifications for the lock and ejector feed lip.


The feed lips of the middle magazine are very different than the Gevarm models on either side. If you were to make the left feed lip the ejector, you may have success in making the Beretta magazine function properly. The trouble is the 20 round Beretta magazine is as rare or maybe more so than the Gevarm version. I am not interested in sacrificing the Beretta magazine to see if it can be made to work in the Gevarm.




You can notice the back of the Beretta magazine is different as well, the feed lip opening and the rear catch groove.....not to mention the Italian marking.



Here is the bizarre theory I have, and it spawned from this little snippet of an article from the 50's. Here we have mention of an actual Gevarm 50 round drum. Apparently there were some built as the article mentioned sales people showing them and the desire of dealers to have some just for the h$ll of it.
My theory is that the drum was built and more than likely a few were made. For what ever reason they never hit the mainstream and didn't see large production numbers. I believe the tooling made its way to Italy by way of the Berretta influence of the other magazine bodies. The drum likely sat from the production floor until the tooling was revived for the Bingham, PPS50, Pietta 22 rifles of today. I believe there may be a Gevarm 50 round drum out there waiting for me to find it.....hopefully!
What influenced my theory further is the fact that Gevelot changed the magazine design one more time before they closed. The last design of magazine didn't share anything with the older original tooling that worked with the older guns. It's like they started over from scratch altogether. I'll show examples of the later magazines designs later in this posting.

Last edited by Lakeside Machine; 07-26-2015 at 02:01 PM.
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  #64  
Old 08-14-2015, 12:43 PM
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I am starting to see how people can become gunaholics. I saw another Gevarm advertised by a gun dealer here in the UK and, of course, bought it.
I could hardly NOT have bought it at the price - 45 ($70)!

It's another E model but this one has the iron rear and fore sights that were missing on both of the first two that I bought although it looks like the rear ramp may be missing here. The ring for the threaded muzzle is also apparently missing. Once again this was bought sight unseen, just a photo and the assurance that the barrel was in good shape were enough. There's an 8-round mag though.

Condition of the wood looks to be very good from this photo.[IMG][/IMG]
Anyhow, it's mine now and I'll give you all the lowdown when I clap eyes on it and the others. Soon now!

Keep those mag posts coming LM, they're very interesting.

John
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  #65  
Old 08-23-2015, 04:39 PM
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70.00!!! Wow, sweet grab! Looks like an E-2 deluxe with the checkered wood, tangent sight and threaded muzzle. You definetly have the wide forearm on that one. It might be an E-3 but I can't tell as I never seen a true E-3 before. When you get that gem in hand, let's get a look at the magazine, it may give a clue if it might be the elusive E3. The E3 is suppose to have the last magazine design. I have a magazine so we should be able to figure it out quick. Thanks for posting this, it's nice to see some of the later/last GevarMs as they don't exist over here.
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  #66  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:05 PM
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5 Round GevarM magazine

Here is an example of the factory 5 round magazine. I have only seen two in my collecting career and here they are! They have three sight windows instead of the 4 sight windows the 8 rounders have. Even though 3 holes are visible and generally 2 rounds represent each hole, these only hold 5 rounds. The body dimensions are the same as its larger brother. It would appear that the magazine capacity length was just clipped off depending on capacity desired. The 5 rounder fits the A and E series rifles.

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  #67  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:27 PM
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GevarM 22 Short Magazines

Here we have some of the GevarM 22 short magazines. What is really neat about these 22 short magazines is that they are made only for shorts. Many makers shim or block a regular 22LR magazine so it will only fit a short. These magazines were made this way from the gitgo! The capacity is 5 rounds with 5 sight holes. The magazine in the middle is a rare 10 rounder also with 5 holes but represents 2 rounds per window. Notice the feed lips on these, the GevarM consistency of the left ejector lip is even evident on the baby short mags. If you look close some of the left lips of the mags are longer than others. This longer lip makes me believe they were never factory tuned yet as the others were.

I still am searching for the elusive 15 rounder. I saw one in a foreign discussion board some time ago, so I know they did make them and atleast one does exists!






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  #68  
Old 08-23-2015, 05:49 PM
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Aftermarket magazines

This set of pictures are of a few aftermarket made magazines for the GevarM. I believe they are Triple K brand, but can not be positive as I didn't purchase them directly from them. The differences are subtle and are easily spotted. One feature is the locking notch in the front of the magazine body. This is a milled slot that isn't angled like the factory magazines. They will lock and hold just fine. The last pictures is the most important. The middle magazine does not have the left feed lip dedicated to being the ejector. The left and right magazine does have the ejector lip defined. All that is needed is to hand grind the right lip back so it is slightly behind the leading edge of the left lip. This will ensure the spent case will flip to the right being it will contact the left feed lip first.

The left magazine was done by myself and has a sharp edge for the ejector lip. The right magazine is of a different production batch and has it designed into the form already. However that left lip has a radius on it from the laser cut. I can not recall if I tested this magazine at all so I can not,tell anyone if it was a plug and play replacement magazine. The middle magazine I had left alone to use as a demonstrator of what improper magazine lips look like for a GevarM.








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  #69  
Old 08-23-2015, 06:09 PM
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GevarM last magazine design

And last but not least here are the last magazine forms made by GevarM. The smaller magazine does fit the older E-1 series rifles but will not fit any of the A-Series rifles. The long magazine is a 20 rounder and will not fit any A series or any of my E-series rifles. It is said it will fit the later E2 and E3 rifles only. They still share the left feed lip ejector design though.








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  #70  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:59 AM
Pianolapete

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LM, I can't begin to tell you how envious I am of your collection of mags. Over here, with gun ownership a fraction of what it is in the U.S., we don't have the same opportunities to visit gun stores or fairs and hunt out the rarities. That said, I imagine that collecting what you've shown us in this thread has been a long hard search.

Last night I had my first sight of two of the three guns I've bought. (You remember the A model with banana mag and the first E model?). Unfortunately, in my excitement, I forgot to take any pics or even make notes about them!

The A model had the filthiest receiver you can imagine, filled with a greyish gritty sludge that took some cleaning out. I completely dismantled the receiver and cleaned and inspected the components. Trigger and bolt look pretty good considering. I already knew that it had no fore or rear sights so that wasn't a surprise. The barrel at least looks clean and free from corrosion and though it won't win any beauty contests it should shoot okay. I need a muzzle ring for it but that shouldn't be too hard to source or make. In fact, I need two muzzle rings as the latest E model's is missing too. I'm guessing that these will be interchangeable between the two models though.

You're probably itching to find out more about the banana mag but for the moment you'll have to be patient. All I can say is that is made from quite thin metal with a wide external rib at front and back. These have been trimmed to allow the lips to fit (rather loosely) into the mag well. It needs some careful fettling with maybe some extra material brazed on to ensure a snug fit. It certainly isn't a Gevarm original but as I couldn't see any manufacturer's mark and I didn't take any pics (idiot!) we'll have to wait until next week, when I get another opportunity to go to where it's stored, to get some.

The nice thing about where the weapons are being kept is that it's a fully equipped armoury and I'm under the supervision of a qualified military armourer. Mag mods are going to be an easy task!

As for the E model, I didn't have time to do more than take it down to the major components but it looks pretty good and the wood has a nice patina. I was (happily) mistaken about the sights on this rifle - they are both present although the foresight has no reticle and the button under the pistol grip isn't hiding a storage space as I was hoping. Maybe the latest E model has reticles hiding there.

LM, does your E-1 have two screws under the forend? Both of my E models do and I wondered whether this might indicate the wider forend of the later E models.

Next time I'll include pics and serial numbers, hopefully for the third rifle too if it's arrived by then.
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  #71  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:52 AM
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Ar-7 mags or not?

I've been searching online to see if I could find an image of the banana mag and I've come up with this.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/217725...-charter-arms-

Although mine has been modified somewhat this is identical as far as I can see. The lister describes these being for an AR-7 survival rifle but a search for AR-7 mags shows something different.

Does anyone have any ideas?
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  #72  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:45 AM
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These are used in "Federal Engineering XC-220", Auto Ordnance A-3 22LR and Ciener AR-15 conversions. Some use adaptors with the mags to fit into the well. Using a adaptor you can also use these in Bingham PPS-50, Ruger 10/22 and AMT 25/22 rifles.
Some filing of notches may be needed to "fit" them to the firearm.
I'm not sure what manufacture was the original maker of them but they are rare now, upwards for sale at $60plus if you can find them.
AR-7 rifles used straight "box" body mags with a flat rear side, these picture have ribs running up/down the rear and front sides edges.
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  #73  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:52 AM
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My E-series rifles have two forearm mounting screws. Both the narrow and wide forearms will swap out in my rifles.

Your muzzle thread protector likely is a 1/2-20 thread and should be easy to find an alternative replacement for it. It might not match up perfectly with the barrel contour, but it will protect the threads.

Now, the magazine you probably have is derived from the Pietta/Bingham pps50 magazine. The basic form was used widely for many different rifles in the day. It was one of the only 30 round steel magazines available years ago. It was used in Ruger 10/22 conversions, the Attchinson Ar15 kits, auto ordnance 1927 22LR Thompsons, the Pietta PPS50 rifles....and others. They were easily adapted to different actions with fabricated adapters fastened to the tops of the magazine bodies. I feel that is what you probably have there. It would be interesting to see if the magazine well was modified to accommodate the magazine or not. We will see once you get the rifle on your hands.
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  #74  
Old 08-27-2015, 06:11 PM
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Has anyone tried the Armscor M20 mags in the Gevarm?
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  #75  
Old 09-04-2015, 09:11 PM
Lakeside Machine

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Years ago when I couldn't find any magazines, I played with a few magazine bodies that were sacrificed to try to make a magazine that would work. This was before the triple K models and Before the internet could be used to search these things. Back then I had crude tools and less experience than I do now so I don't remember making a successful replacement....or one I would be proud enough to display here ; )

The trick with the Gevarms is that they have a very small magazine form dimensionally. The next problem is the feed lip ejector problem. If the feed lip isn't long enough you will have a timing issue for when the case can be ejected positively. It is possible to eject the case too late and it will be caught in the chamber face area. Many magazines have a shorter feed lip than the Gevarm.

The E-series rifles seem to have a more forgiving magazine well design. There may be other magazines that may well fit. With the ejector lip mod and catch properly placed you could get an alternative magazine to work.

Now that I have a TIG welder, I can fabricate lips and redo catches and make things work if they needed tweeking.

Here's one more twist to the history and evolution of the A-Series guns.....the magazine wells changed as time went on. I have a late model A3 that has an opened up profile for its magazine well....maybe it was just done to make it easier to fit the magazines. I noticed this lately while getting ready for the next series of pictures for this topic.
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