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  #16  
Old 01-02-2015, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob4BVM View Post
Well I guess you could say that, but to me the whole idea of primitive weapons is that they be, well, primitive weapons.
The inline M/L rifle belongs in the same category at those "Compound Devices" which some people insist on calling bows. Definitely NOT primitive weapons.

Much is lost to technology in both cases.
I couldn't agree more. Bow hunting isn't the same with a compound bow as it is with a recurve bow.
Muzzle loading hunting isn't the same with these extremely "modern" muzzle loaders.
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2015, 08:00 AM
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I have owned and shot several TC Hawken rifles ,have shot many roundballs through them, loaded and maintained correctly they are just as effective as any inline ML'er and in my findings more accurate to ,I can load and shoot a TC many times without ever cleaning it, you just have to know how. Most problems with percussion and flintlock rifles are caused by user error, not the gun. Although I prefer custom ML'ers TC Hawken rifles are one of my favorite rifles.
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2015, 08:37 AM
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I had one for several years and found it plenty accurate for hunting. The 1-48 twist is not perfect for round ball or conical. With round ball a tight patch helps to keep from stripping in the rifling. Reducing the charge for a lower velocity also helps. If the recovered patches are shredding you need different material, or, slow it down. Mine shot round balls best at about 75 % of listed maximum charge. Thompson Center maxi balls ( an old full diameter conical) shot best with max charges. About 3 inches at 75 yards. What a hammer though. 54 caliber and over 400 grains and a big flat nose. Had a lot of knockdown on both ends!
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2015, 09:11 AM
TrapperXX
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I still find it hard to believe that Thompson Center discontinued the traditional guns a while ago.
I understand the whole sales thing but man...these guns were their history. To not even make one as an option has bugged me since they stopped.
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  #20  
Old 01-03-2015, 09:36 AM
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I still have the one I built from a kit about 30 years ago.Ive forgotten the model name but I was thinking mountain rifle and they had a lightweight 45 cal gun that filled the bill.Put in for a ml deer license that year,practiced a fair amount with it,didnt draw a permit.Took it rabbit hunting Its been sitting ever since.
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  #21  
Old 01-03-2015, 03:41 PM
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actually the first in-line muzzleloders were made in the 1800's. http://www.peashooter85.com/post/417...-made-by-a-new
So the concept has been around quite a long time. The look and feel has changed but you still get one shot and you have to load it down the pipe.
I have had TC Hawkens in 50 and 45, a TC Renegade in 50 and 54, a TC Cherokee in 45, an Ivestarms (same company that makes the guns for Lyman) Hawken in 50 cal. All I have now is a Lyman GP in 50 cal with peeps and a Encore 209x50. The TC's all shot good but the Lyman beat them and at 50 yards it shoots as good as my encore with a scope on it.
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  #22  
Old 01-03-2015, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperXX View Post
I still find it hard to believe that Thompson Center discontinued the traditional guns a while ago.
I understand the whole sales thing but man...these guns were their history. To not even make one as an option has bugged me since they stopped.
Selection of guns and also barrels for the Contender and Encore took a huge hit when S&W bought TC and closed down the TC plant. Real shame. That old TC in Rochester N.H. was one heck of a company, but all good things come to an end.
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  #23  
Old 01-03-2015, 06:25 PM
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I have shot a number of 48 inch twist muzzleloaders in 50 and 54 caliber like the T/C Hawken while doing load development. I currently have a 54 cal. T/C Renegade and have found that a load of 105 grs of Pyrodex with a 45 cal. 300 gr. Hornady XTP bullet in a Sabot can shoot 3 shot groups of 1-1.5 inches at 100 yards. ( using good scope and cleaning the barrel after each shot from a bench ). This combo was better than all other weights of 45 cal. bullets using Sabots in a 48" twist and shot similarly in both 50 and 54 caliber rifles. Fun rifles.
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  #24  
Old 01-03-2015, 06:53 PM
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Built mine from a kit a long, long time ago and used it to take many a deer. Over a period of several days, I draw filed and polished the barrel, then browned it using traditional techniques. I really took my time inletting and assembling the rifle to avoid the "homeowner" look and was very pleased with the results. It's performed flawlessly over the past 30 or so years.

I bought a used TC Hawken flinter a few years ago and caution you on two fronts: A used Hawken may have had less than stellar maintenance and could, therefore, have a corroded bore even though the barrel looks pristine on the outside. The second reason is craftsmanship and herein lies the paradox. If the builder put their heart and soul into it, it's unlikely that it will be for sale anytime soon. But if it was assembled by a hack, expect to re-fit much of the brasswork to bring it up to snuff, replace butchered screws, and perhaps even refinish the barrel and stock. It will be a gem when you're finished, however.
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2015, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimfiregal View Post
The bad news is that the TC Hawkens aren't made, anymore. The good news is that you can find used TC Hawkens pretty darn cheap, these days, as most folks have switched to inlines for hunting during muzzleloader seasons. Unfortunately, some gun shops won't take them in on trade because they are such slow movers. No one is ever going to call the TC a highly authentic reproduction, but most will agree that they are well made, quality guns.

We have a 45 and a 50. The 1 in 48 will do a decent job with patched round balls. You just have to find the velocity that gives you best results and with round balls in a 1-48, that's typically the more moderate loads. If you want to shoot hot loads, the conicals are better in these guns.

By the way, I also shoot TC Encore 209x50s, both in the rifle and (my favorite) the pistol. I'll be the first to admit that the only thing primitive about them is the way you load them. They will give most of our cartridge guns a run for the money in terms of accuracy, all the way out to 200 yards.

Here's our 45 and 50 Hawkens, both with a factory peep sight.

Is that a Lyman peep sight that you are using on those rifles? If so, does in use the existing tang screws on the Hawken rifle?
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2015, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay View Post

Ive forgotten the model name but I was thinking mountain rifle and they had a lightweight 45 cal gun that filled the bill.
I, too, prefer the lightweight guns to the heavier Hawken/Renegade.

The lightweight's are the slimmer Seneca & Cherokee models, made in only .32, .36, & .45 calibers.

The heavier Hawken's had 1" or 15/16" barrels (measured across-the-flats), and more brass furniture than the Renegade or Cherokee.

The Cherokee & the Seneca (along with the Patriot pistol) were downsized, having 13/16" barrels, slimmer stocks, and smaller locks.

The early Cherokee's & Seneca's were unmarked as such, which leaves measuring the barrel thickness as a quick identifier.

Since the only game I hunt with the .45's is deer, the lighter weight .45's suit me much more - I also have a .36 Seneca for small game.


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Last edited by Pete44ru; 03-27-2015 at 09:44 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-16-2015, 11:43 PM
Bob4BVM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete44ru View Post
I, too, prefer the lightweight guns to the heavier Hawken.

The lightweight's are the slimmer Seneca & Cherokee models, made in only .32, .36, & .45 calibers.

These are .36 & .45 Seneca's:

This is a Seneca (upper rifle), with a Cherokee (both .45's), to show one of the differences (the other being barrel length):
The heavier Hawken's had 15/16" barrels (measured across-the-flats), or 1" barrels in .54, and more brass furniture than the Renegade or Cherokee.

The Cherokee & the Seneca (along with the Patriot pistol) were downsized, having 13/16" barrels, slimmer stocks, and smaller locks.

The early Cherokee's & Seneca's were unmarked as such, which leaves measuring the barrel thickness as a quick identifier.

Since the only game I hunt with them is deer, the lighter weight .45's suit me much more.

.
OK Pete, you're killing me!
Over the years I have more or less standardized on .54's for long guns, for the sake of balls, molds, accessories, etc.

My latest 54 is a Lancaster flinter I built a few years ago. With a fully swamped barrel, it is a beautifully balanced 60" piece of maple and steel. Balanced yes, but light, no.
I have always wondered what that rifle would feel like in a 32 or 36 caliber.
Your post got me thinking about it again, and probably will end up getting me into trouble with my spousal unit when she finds out I want to build another rifle !

Thanks a lot !
Bob
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2015, 03:49 PM
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Two weeks ago, I kuldn't spel it, but now I.R.A. Enabler.....................



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  #29  
Old 01-20-2015, 08:09 PM
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I took my young son to the local range where the muzzleloader shooters were getting some range time. One of the shooters let my son shoot his T/C Seneca in 36 caliber. I think my son was "hooked". That Seneca looks like a minature Hawken and it was light enough that my son could handle it.
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2015, 01:27 AM
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I got a little carried away with patch and round ball black powder guns. I have

Lyman Great Plains 50 Cal
T/C Renegades 50 and 45 Cal
T/C Cleland Match Rifle 40 Cal
T/C Seneca 45 Cal
T/C Patriot 45 Cal

I love shooting all of them.
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