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  #61  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:48 PM
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Button puller update



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I have been using .095" round green Gatorline to make my Patchsnake button pullers and Jagsnake looped patch pullers for a few years now. It is readily available, relatively inexpensive, and holds up to abuse pretty well – or so I thought. I have noticed over the last two seasons that the button on the green trimmer line will pull off after a few months of hard use, especially on patch snakes that are a tight fit in the bore.






I decided to start experimenting with different products and found a spool of this .105 inch Universal trimmer line made by Rino Tuff.




I made a few button pullers with it and have to say that the way that the material melts is superior to the Gator line, the button is much harder and near impossible to pull off!!! The only downside is that the trimmer line itself has a light serration down one side which could potentially collect up grit which would be a no-no and contrary to the intended purpose of these tools.

I have experimented with methods to remove the seriation, sandpaper was my first thought but tends to embed small particle of Emery or silica into the line so I nixed that idea. So far, pulling a straight edged razor blade against the line with gentle thumb pressure seems to work well. I will keep experimenting with this new material and post back here when I have a process perfected as I do believe it will produce a superior button style patch pulling device once I get the nuances of their fabrication worked out.


Hope this helps-

DrGunner

Last edited by DrGunner; 09-02-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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  #62  
Old 10-14-2014, 10:38 PM
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Wonderful Idea...

DrGunner

I know that I'm late to the party, but that is just awesome! Thanks for the idea along with the detailed photos. I can't wait to make one or two myself.
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  #63  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyBye View Post
DrGunner

I know that I'm late to the party, but that is just awesome! Thanks for the idea along with the detailed photos. I can't wait to make one or two myself.
Hey, a NEW GUY... WELCOME to RFC!!!!!


Since you have the auspicious honor of being the subject of my 6000th post, and as
a welcoming gift- I would like to offer you the following:

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a brass chamber handle, jag puller and a handful of button pullers-

Freebie!!!

Warmest Regards,

DrGunner
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  #64  
Old 12-02-2014, 10:25 AM
Flametamer52
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DrGunner, Schutzen-jager, hd09, and other contributors:

Thanks so much for this thread. Just found it, although I cannot recall how I got here from there... I have been experimenting along similar lines and your generosity in sharing your results is very much appreciated

Perchance, have you resolved the question about smoothing out the RhinoTuff line?
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  #65  
Old 12-02-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Flametamer52 View Post
DrGunner, Schutzen-jager, hd09, and other contributors:

Thanks so much for this thread. Just found it, although I cannot recall how I got here from there... I have been experimenting along similar lines and your generosity in sharing your results is very much appreciated

Perchance, have you resolved the question about smoothing out the RhinoTuff line?
I have been running mine on a ragwheel with polishing compound-

Just have to be careful, go slow and don't build up too much heat

You might want to check this thread by Nosnil22- Dave invented a crown protector for use with pull through cleaning systems:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=565768


Hope this helps-


DrGunner
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  #66  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:16 PM
Flametamer52
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Simple enough, thanks!
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  #67  
Old 01-24-2015, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Tomorrow I will post Chapter 1: How to make the Gunner Patchsnake button style puller....

DrG
OK I hope the photos are there then I can't see a Darn thing as it is, just boxes with X's in them.
G-B

Last edited by Gabby-Bill; 01-25-2015 at 03:46 AM.
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  #68  
Old 01-24-2015, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill View Post
OK I hope the photos are there then I can't see a D**n thing as it is, just boxes with X's in them.
G-B
Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner
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Last edited by DrGunner; 01-24-2015 at 05:24 AM.
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  #69  
Old 01-25-2015, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner
I think you are right and I'm not sure how to deal with it!
Anyone savvy enough to give me a pointer?
G-B
:
Some of the images in other threads open without a problem, but many have the little black box with the X which makes me wonder about photobucket or whatever source you are using may be having a glitch, or even this site is glitching. I've spent hours trying to view the photos on this site and this particular thread without results. Admin can you take a look and see if there is a problem here? I don't have any problem viewing images on other websites.

Last edited by Gabby-Bill; 01-25-2015 at 05:38 AM. Reason: adding comment about lack of photos to view.
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  #70  
Old 01-31-2015, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Bill- the pictures are working fine on my PC and tablet

You posted a similar statement earlier this morning in another thread... Logical answer is it's a technical issue on your end.

Hope you get it figured out-

DrGunner
Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.
GB

Last edited by Gabby-Bill; 01-31-2015 at 01:28 AM.
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  #71  
Old 01-31-2015, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill View Post
Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.
GB
I just sent a PM to TheGeek, our tech Jedi/administrator. Hopefully he's not too busy and you'll have an answer soon.

DrGunner
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  #72  
Old 02-01-2015, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill View Post
Nope they are still blank funny thing is I can see photos in other threads of this forum.
But I'm experiencing the same thing on the checkering thread.
These two threads are the ones I really want to see what's going on, on!
Go figure! I'd like an administrator to take a look at it but haven't been able to find one to complain about it to.
GB
Finally found out it must have been a firewall keeping photo bucket from accessing my computer, got rid of photo bucket and now I can see again. I'm not going to try to upload anything again no more mister nice guy.
G-B
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  #73  
Old 02-01-2015, 10:28 AM
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DrGunner et al,
First, thanks for the excellent write up of how you make your chamber tools. This is definitely on my "honeydew" list. I was cleaning my K10/22T yesterday and was needing a chamber brush. Found this thread and now I need to source some brass round bar!

I have a couple of tips to offer regarding the hot working of brass and aluminum. I am a welder by trade, and although I primarily build, service and install machines now, I used to make custom decorative architectural metal products. Long story short, one can easily "anneal", or soften, aluminum and brass using your MAPP torch and some water. You merely need to heat the metal to its "critical temperature" and then quench it in a bucket of water. I would guess that the AL rods in the Hoppes kit are made from 6061-T6 bar, so just warm them up to 8-900 F and quickly dunk them into a bucket of water. This will put them into a "dead soft" state. AL (and brass, an alloy of copper and {today} zinc) will "work harden", but since we will only be bending them once, it shouldn't be an issue. The T6 rod will automatically re-harden over time, so if you want to do a bunch of rods over a couple (or more) days, after annealing them, pop them into the freezer and they will stay soft indefinitely. Weird, huh? Frankly I didn't believe that until I tried it--had to make a mess of rivets to construct an arbor for a houseboat here in Seattle.

Anyway, you can find Tempil sticks at your local welding supply shop. Basically it is a crayon whose "wax" melts at a specific temperature. While heating the rods, keep dabbing the crayon onto the AL bar until it melts. Your failures /cracking while heating and forming the multi-piece rods from Hoppes were likely the result of overheating. AL doesn't get shiny when it melts, and its high coefficient of thermal conductivity makes it easy to heat up, but also means it cools down rapidly, especially in such a small diameter size. What this means for our annealing process is that time is of the essence when preparing for the "dunk". As quickly as possible (an assistant really pays off here) get the rod into the water before it cools below the critical temperature, or becomes overheated. Once quenched, the difference in formability is dramatic. Care must be taken as it will become soft enough to be bent easily. Usually 24 hours later it will harden on its own, so set the formed rods aside and let them do their thing undisturbed.

When you buy your brass round stock at the hardware store, it will likely be "half-hard". Heat it to red hot, quench it and the formability should improve. I've not worked a lot with brass, so am not sure if it will reharden like AL. If you want a material that really works nicely, round up (pun intended) some silicon bronze rod. Bends easily with just a touch of heat and since silicon is the alloying metal (with copper) you don't have the low melting point of zinc to contend with, and the chance of cracking is greatly reduced.

Anyway, hope you find my ramblings useful. Thanks again for the great idea! BTW, what diameter brass rod do you use? I must have missed it in your post.
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  #74  
Old 02-01-2015, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits View Post
DrGunner et al,
First, thanks for the excellent write up of how you make your chamber tools. This is definitely on my "honeydew" list. I was cleaning my K10/22T yesterday and was needing a chamber brush. Found this thread and now I need to source some brass round bar!

I have a couple of tips to offer regarding the hot working of brass and aluminum. I am a welder by trade, and although I primarily build, service and install machines now, I used to make custom decorative architectural metal products. Long story short, one can easily "anneal", or soften, aluminum and brass using your MAPP torch and some water. You merely need to heat the metal to its "critical temperature" and then quench it in a bucket of water. I would guess that the AL rods in the Hoppes kit are made from 6061-T6 bar, so just warm them up to 8-900 F and quickly dunk them into a bucket of water. This will put them into a "dead soft" state. AL (and brass, an alloy of copper and {today} zinc) will "work harden", but since we will only be bending them once, it shouldn't be an issue. The T6 rod will automatically re-harden over time, so if you want to do a bunch of rods over a couple (or more) days, after annealing them, pop them into the freezer and they will stay soft indefinitely. Weird, huh? Frankly I didn't believe that until I tried it--had to make a mess of rivets to construct an arbor for a houseboat here in Seattle.

Anyway, you can find Tempil sticks at m your local welding supply shop. Basically it is a crayon whose "wax" melts at a specific temperature. While heating the rods, keep dabbing the crayon onto the AL bar until it melts. Your failures /cracking while heating and forming the multi-piece rods from Hoppes were likely the result of overheating. AL doesn't get shiny when it melts, and its high coefficient of thermal conductivity makes it easy to heat up, but also means it cools down rapidly, especially in such a small diameter size. What this means for our annealing process is that time is of the essence when preparing for the "dunk". As quickly as possible (an assistant really pays off here) get the rod into the water before it cools below the critical temperature, or becomes overheated. Once quenched, the difference in formability is dramatic. Care must be taken as it will become soft enough to be bent easily. Usually 24 hours later it will harden on its own, so set the formed rods aside and let them do their thing undisturbed.

When you buy your brass round stock at the hardware store, it will likely be "half-hard". Heat it to red hot, quench it and the formability should improve. I've not worked a lot with brass, so am not sure if it will reharden like AL. If you want a material that really works nicely, round up (pun intended) some silicon bronze rod. Bends easily with just a touch of heat and since silicon is the alloying metal (with copper) you don't have the low melting point of zinc to contend with, and the chance of cracking is greatly reduced.

Anyway, hope you find my ramblings useful. Thanks again for the great idea! BTW, what diameter brass rod do you use? I must have missed it in your post.
Hey Chuck- thanks for the useful info. Funny thing, I've already been quenching mine, I just drop them I'm a bucket of water to cool, but after shaping. I Will give your suggestions a try.

As far as the brass rods go, I don't even use aluminum anymore. The failure of the Hoppes aluminum rods appears to happen without overheating, about one in 10 just crumbles on bending and I suspect the raw material isn't of the highest purity?

Anyhow- I use Hoppes 3 section .22 cal brass rods now. They cost around $8-9 on Amazon, so I can make the handles for about $3 apiece. The brass is MUCH easier easier to work with, both forming and drilling/tapping.

I very much appreciate your valuable insight- I'm a tinkerer where this stuff is concerned and the vast majority of what I know is instinctive, learned from trial and error and thus a frequent and costly failure and waste of raw materials.


Your advice may well help minimize that moving forward.


DrGunner
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  #75  
Old 07-29-2015, 07:50 AM
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Thanks!

DrGunner:

As a new rimfire participant (perhaps addict would be more descriptive), I really appreciate all the effort you put into sharing these great ideas.
Very well done.
Tom
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