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  #31  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:19 PM
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Man that is GREAT news. I am so glad you kept at it. I would still experiment with a barrel support but what an improvement.

I know the feeling you had so well. All of sudden the thing seems to come to life and you are on your way

I am just very excited for you. Kind of the same thing that happened with my 581 Rem with almost identical bedding. I think on the Remington bedding the "tang" or rear of the stock helped too but I have to get back to experimenting......so many project and so little time and a body that can only handle so much loading and unloading to go to the range.

Just a reminder: After a couple weeks go back and add a strip or two to the existing tape because it will settle.

You do not know what kind of a smile and a charge I just got. I just walked in from being at Vanderbilt University Hospital for a treatment and it has been a long day already. Fired up the computer and did a search for the threads I have posted in and this was the first thing I saw!! That is just great. I know how happy it makes me so You must be pumped but we also still have work to do, experiments to try to see how far you can take it and to make sure the results are repeatable. Just the same this is a great first indication things are going in the right direction.

You may also want to keep a few notes as to when and how much kind of thing as you experiment. I keep many of my notes right on my targets when I do not get too lazy

Looks like your "dog" may be a prince of a pup yet

As before if I can help in any way just let me know
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:53 PM
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Thanks Vincent, but credit to you I was just the installer. I ran out of time and ability to call "cease fires" at my range so I couldn't shoot a bunch of groups. That's my next step, test consistency. But I can tell you I had a huge smile on my face shooting that group, almost split my lips. What a relief.

You saved me from buying a new stock or selling this rifle as I was really, really disappointed and frustrated. Thanks for the suggestion to add some more tape down the road, that'll save me from scratching my head wondering what happened when the tape settled.

Believe me I am happy that you are happy with my success. Take care and mucho thanks again.
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  #33  
Old 11-03-2012, 05:57 AM
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Vincent, sorry I took so long to reply.
I bought the gasket material at either Advance or Auto Zone, don't remember which.
I had to ask for it at the counter, and it comes in varying sized rolls and thicknesses.
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  #34  
Old 11-05-2012, 08:09 PM
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Thanks from me as well, Vincent.

I recently bought a Zastava MP22 and after shooting it some I believed it needed bedding. Horizontal strings, etc. It would shoot an amazing group, and the very next one would be all over the place. You likely know the stocks and inletting on the Zastavas are not the best. So I started putting your tape method to work and the difference is easy to notice, even after just one session. I still need to recheck my work after today's range trip but I'm already very, very pleased!
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpocoal View Post
Thanks from me as well, Vincent.

I recently bought a Zastava MP22 and after shooting it some I believed it needed bedding. Horizontal strings, etc. It would shoot an amazing group, and the very next one would be all over the place. You likely know the stocks and inletting on the Zastavas are not the best. So I started putting your tape method to work and the difference is easy to notice, even after just one session. I still need to recheck my work after today's range trip but I'm already very, very pleased!
I am so glad to hear that you guys are getting something out of this. I've been doing it for years and now I wish I had written that sooner. Several of the SuperStock guys have been using it and Ricochet would only use it because he was scared of regular bedding. I even sent him a bedding kit and he stayed with the tape.
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  #36  
Old 07-18-2013, 01:23 PM
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A quickie update on the 581. Last time out I was shooting very badly and the rifle still had the Heavy Trigger in it which is what brought me back to this Stickie.

I was kicking my self later but I shot some 50 yard groups with it. I was starting to formulate a plan the replace the skinny long barrel with either a Green Mountain Heavy Taper or a Fedderson 10/22 Sporter. It would really not be that tough to do. Would go from .625 24 inch barrel to a 17-19 inch barrel that has a straight taper ending in a .750" muzzle. Pretty easy if you have a lathe and the fat end in .920 which would have matched up nicely to the 1.010" action leaving an attractive .040" step from action to barrel and eliminating the plastic sight base and shroud to make it look nice.

Anyway just before graycrait and I left the range I shot some 50 yard groups that appeared to be quite a bit less than the 25 yard groups used to be. I had forgotten all about the great groups Andrew had shot at the last test months ago. I was shocked to see how well this 581 is shooting with the tape/rubber bedding!

When it was time to come home I was, quite honestly, in way too much pain to walk out to 50 and get the targets. graycrait had already done so much to help me I was too embarrassed to ask him to get them Sometimes being in constant pain sucks.

The reason I came back here was to get the address for a post in Remington on a little trigger work I did on this stiff trigger. All I did was replace the sear spring on the 581 with a"Ernie The Gunsmith" spring. If you have a 580, 581, 582 or a centerfire 788 look into this spring. What a difference! You can get them and many other things at:

www.erniethegunsmith.com.

I have no connection with them and they do not even know who I am. Just a good product for fellow Remington guys

I got all fumble fingered so it took 15 minutes but it should have taken less than 10 and I think it was $6.95 which is a lot for a tiny spring but it is very cheap for the improvement in the trigger.

Remember all your bolt action Remingtons are legal in the SuperStock Forum and I would truly love to see you guys posting your rifles over there and playing our games if you like it! They are NOT competition just games to play. PLEASE drop buy and check it out

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Last edited by Vincent; 09-04-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:16 PM
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GREAT thread, thanks!!!

Now for my question, has anyone tried it on center fire rifle yet? FWIW, I have a GSR (.308) and wanted to try it.
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  #38  
Old 08-06-2013, 12:42 AM
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Actually Fuzzy Limey says that he used a similar tact while getting the .303 Enfields ready for the Olympics in the 1930s

Then they used a medical tape but after coming to this country he found the aluminum tape. I knew someone else had to have tried this before I did!!

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Last edited by Vincent; 08-06-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-06-2013, 12:06 PM
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Vincent, Thanks for posting this info. I am really looking forward to trying this out, especially on an old Rem 722 in .222 that has been not as consistent as it should be. I do have two questions for you, and I apologize for if this is already described. I am confused as to the layering of the tape... how would I know how many shims need to go on one side or the other? Will this become apparent as I begin to layer? Second: what glue are you using for the front bike tire pad? Again, THANK YOU.
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  #40  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billonthehill View Post
Vincent, Thanks for posting this info. I am really looking forward to trying this out, especially on an old Rem 722 in .222 that has been not as consistent as it should be. I do have two questions for you, and I apologize for if this is already described. I am confused as to the layering of the tape... how would I know how many shims need to go on one side or the other? Will this become apparent as I begin to layer? Second: what glue are you using for the front bike tire pad? Again, THANK YOU.
Questions are NEVER a problem. Do not think like that. Your question is likely to help the 8-10 people that read this stuff and never post.

Tape bedding is mostly a try and see what happens kind of thing. However your 722 (Great rifles) is a round action so if you look and see how I did the 581 it would be much the same being a smaller version of the 788. All the round actioned rifles are glass bedded pretty much the same so I just assume most are also going to react to tape bedding the same. The advantage the 722 has over my 581 is that you have two take down screws so you have the option of floating the barrel. Having said that my 700 .243 shoots better with the first two inches in front of the action bedded and a about 5-8 pound up pressure on the barrel at the forearm tip.

As far as how many strips of tape you put an equal number on both sides and under the tang until it just starts to get hard to put the action into the stock. At that point look to see if your barrel is centered in the barrel part of the forearm. If it is crooked you add more strips on the side the barrel is off to.

When you are done it should be hard to push your action into the stock. Not so you have to really force it but very tight. In a few days you will have to take it apart and add an equal number of strips of tape on both side because these settle as the glue is squooshed down In a few months you may need another strip.

Currently I am not using any glue on the inner tube just letting the pressure hold it. I have bought some "F-26 Heavy Adhesive" but have not got around to using it. If you buy a tire patch kit for $3 from WalMart automotive area the patches have a light sticky glue already on them like this:


Hope all that helps you

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  #41  
Old 08-07-2013, 06:52 PM
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Vincent, thanks for responding with such clarity. Next time I'm in town I'm planning on picking up some aluminum tape and starting in on this method. I'm looking forward to seeing what this may do to tighten my groups. Thank you again.
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  #42  
Old 08-08-2013, 01:49 AM
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My pleasure always.
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  #43  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:02 PM
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Never saw this thread before. cool, because I started using aluminum tape this way back in the 1980s (along with aluminum soda can shims and there was even one troublesome Remington 513T that I bedded with elmer's glue and cardboard). I have nothing to add to this excellent thread.
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  #44  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:47 PM
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Like I said in the tutorial I figured other people had tried something like it. We have been doing it in SuperStock for 5 years or so.
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  #45  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:34 AM
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Unhappy FINAL REPORT>>>Why I failed to get sticky tape to work as bedding...

I failed in my attempt to stabilize a round Remington 541 action with the aluminum tape layering. Admittedly it seemed plausible, but even Vincent warned me several times it may not work for every application...and now I see if fact why it won't work for most situations. I think he was lucky to get it to perform in his rifle, and it did help me a little initially, but then got steadily worse. Now here's why the use of sticky backed tape layers won't help you with good action bedding...>

The aluminum tape off a new roll measured 0.0068", the paper backing has a 0.0032" thickness, and the actual aluminum layer is only 0.0011" thick, so the glue on the tape is about 0.0025" thick, which means 70% of what your applying is soft tacky squishy glue ! Sure you can push it in hard, burnish or iron it down, but the remaining entrapped glue will become the point of failure since the majority of that soft oozing glue is still in your bedding...now how can any movement stabilize an action ? I refused to give up shooting over 500 rounds, until I realized the hard way why my POI and group size kept changing. It's because with time, or heat, or the vibration of shooting the soft glue in my bedding kept oozing and shifting... often only allowing 2-3 good shots in a row before moving. My stock was pretty sloppy and the more layers of tape I applied, the tighter the bedding 'seemed' to get, but then the poorer the groups got. In the end I measured that I'd applied in the worst area about 15 layers, and sure it seemed tight when inserting the action, but I estimate I had yet as much as 0.025" of entrapped glue. I could easily squeeze a .012" change with my calipers, so no way is 0.012" of possible movement on each side of an action good for accuracy. At best any improvement to be gained using tape will be short lived.

In the beginning I was only after a method of tightening my action in its wooden stock without modifying the factory original. Now that I know my barreled action will really shoot, I will take the proper and permanent steps to accuracy via pillars and epoxy bedding, and put in the second action screw in the case of a Rem 541.

So if you want to test an action, or use any temporary fix without modifying the factory stock, I have but one suggestion I believe may work...try the Plasti Dip product suggested above by 'forrest' at post # 29 in this thread....and remember it too is only a temporary solution:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...=510947&page=2
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