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  #1  
Old 03-31-2011, 08:12 PM
Irish John

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An observation on .22lr ammunition in Russian rifles...



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I own 3 different Russian rifles, a CM-2, a Vostock and a 7-4 Biathlon. The CM-2 prefers Aguila Subsonic while the Vostock shoots Thunderbolt the best and the 7-4 loves American Eagle 40gr solids. Not exactly high end target ammunition and not the cleanest shooting stuff. All three of them loved some Russian
"Junior" ammunition I had at one time. I got a case of it in a trade many years ago and have long since shot it all up.

My point/comment or question is, I wonder why so many of our Russian rifles seem to prefer the cheap dirty stuff? I have tried practically everything over the years from $16/box Lapua to .99 Candian Tire ammunition. I have never found the more expensive ammo to shoot better than cheaper ammunition. Ok, maybe one exception, Lapua Polar for really cold weather, as in temps below 20 degrees.

Is this similar to other's experiences?
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:54 PM
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(quote)
My point/comment or question is, I wonder why so many of our Russian rifles seem to prefer the cheap dirty stuff?
Probably because they were designed to shoot there dirty nasty grease home grown ammo.....

Ya my 3-Russian rifles are not picky eaters.
My CM-2 & BB 7-2 KO love German made ammo RWS, SK family of ammo's I wish I had the $$$ they would shoot it more...

The TOZ 78 so far only likes the cheep stuff.....
The trio shoot the Russian ammo I have pretty good "steel cased ammo & all".



Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 03-31-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:13 PM
Irish John

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Swiss, I think you are probably right about the dirty greasy ammunition. Your "Junior" groups are what I used to get when I still had some to shoot. Where did you find it?? They used to make an ammunition with similar properties to Lapua Polar. Can't remember the name but sure wish I could find some of that as well.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:21 PM
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I bough a brick of Jr. Brass from some one here on RFC.
There is some Russian ammo floating around.
Was a guy a few years ago that had a few cases of the Jr. brass but wanted big $$$$ for it.
His wife was his state pistol shooting champion and used the Jr. Brass to win & wanted Eley 10X price.
I remember paying $10.00 per brick for Jr. Brass is the 90's.
The Russian Klimovsk ammo Co. made some Biathlon ammo I shot a few bricks of it also in the 90's sold
for $18.00 per brick....ah the good old day's.
I bough a mixed lot # brick of Russian Pistol Temp from another guy last year here on RFC.

But so far it don't shot so hot in my CM-2 ...LOL

One thing I have found out about Russian ammo is it's very sensitive to temperature.
Likes the temps in the 60-90* range.

Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 04-01-2011 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:39 AM
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Oh I forgot about the Junior temp sensitivity. I learned that the hard way,once took it to a match in late November and the target looked like a shotgun had shot it.

On the other hand their biathlon ammunition really shined when the temps dropped. I don't think the brand you mentioned is what I had but considering the history of success the Soviets had in international biathlon competion back in the day, they did seem to know how to make good cold weather ammunition.

I did see a brick of Junior for sale last month at a local show, for $55!
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by midwest swiss View Post
(quote)
My point/comment or question is, I wonder why so many of our Russian rifles seem to prefer the cheap dirty stuff?
Probably because they were designed to shoot there dirty nasty grease home grown ammo.....

Ya my 3-Russian rifles are not picky eaters.
My CM-2 & BB 7-2 KO love German made ammo RWS, SK family of ammo's I wish I had the $$$ they would shoot it more...

The TOZ 78 so far only likes the cheep stuff.....
The trio shoot the Russian ammo I have pretty good "steel cased ammo & all".



Swiss
Midwest Swiss, who makes the red box Sniper 22LR that is pictured in your post and where can you get it? Looks like it was the most consistent from the pics. regards, Dale.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:06 AM
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Oh ya the Sniper was there middle of the road match grade ammo.

The sniper ammo that I had would shoot like Wolf MT.
Klimovsk ammo Co. made a wide variety of .22Lr ammo of different grades.
I also had a brick of white Match ammo also that shot about the same as Sniper. I only have 1 box of 50 left...
Here is one dead insect shot at 50 yards with the CM-2.

There best ammo was Olimp reported to be as good as anybodies best of the best in the world.


Where can a person get Russian ammo now....just whats left out there I guess laying around and some one is willing to sell.
Last I herd Klimovsk is not making ammo any more ???

Midwest Swiss
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:34 PM
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Since the break up of the Soviet Union a lot of the "state" companies have collapsed. I am sure there is some munitions company in Russia making .22lr ammunition, I just don't know who, where or the quality of if. I noticed at the world biathlon race in Maine this year that the Russians, and most everyone else, were using a variety of Lapua ammunition. I did not see anything that looked like Russian ammunition.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:55 PM
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The chambers in these rifles have a lot to do with their accuracy but there is NO WAY my CM-2, Toz 78, or Biathlon Basic will shoot welfare ammo the way they shoot Lapua Center X. I have to also add that my CM-2 won't shoot Eley as well as Lapua.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte View Post
The chambers in these rifles have a lot to do with their accuracy but there is NO WAY my CM-2, Toz 78, or Biathlon Basic will shoot welfare ammo the way they shoot Lapua Center X. I have to also add that my CM-2 won't shoot Eley as well as Lapua.
What Charlotte....I think there is something wrong with your rifles

Swiss
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:43 AM
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Russian Rifle Ammunition Preferences

Very interesting thread ... well documented.
I STICKIED the thead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
Sticky: Ammunition
An observation on .22lr ammunition in Russian rifles ... Russian rifles seem to prefer the cheap dirty stuff

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you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:51 PM
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Agree AOM22, great info all. Thanks Swiss for the added info on the Russian Sniper red box ammo as well. regards, Dale.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte View Post
The chambers in these rifles have a lot to do with their accuracy but there is NO WAY my CM-2, Toz 78, or Biathlon Basic will shoot welfare ammo the way they shoot Lapua Center X. I have to also add that my CM-2 won't shoot Eley as well as Lapua.
My CM-2 (a CDNN Gun) loves Eley Club (orange box). I agree that the chamber is most likely the biggest factor in ammo preference.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:45 PM
William Harper

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Smile .22 ammunition in Russian Rifles:

So far the closest grouping ammo in my TOZ 78-01 has been CCI Green Tag in .78" at 100 yards. It also stayed in the 10 ring with CCI Velocitor at that range. I use it for squirrel shooting early in the season or for fun on the range on steel spinner targets with Federal Automatch. It would be my choice for Summer Biathlon with its moderate weight, clear sight picture, and great trigger all contributing to unusual accuracy, especially with Green Tag.

Last edited by William Harper; 12-07-2011 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:48 AM
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I have never shot anything except Russian Junior Brass in my CM2. Luckly I have a livetime supply. It shoots 10's at 50 ft every shot if held correctly.
Sometime ago (maybe 1 yr.) there was a Russian forum member that lived in the same city that the Junior ammo and he said the factory was closed and out of business. What a shame.
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