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  #1  
Old 12-19-2010, 09:41 AM
RET
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Ural Overhaul XI O Ring /Ammo Testing



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Weather: Overcast
Temp: 42 F
Wind: Calm with breezes at light times as noted.
Rifle: Ural...Same one as in image set I - X.
Ammo: As shown.
Range: Oil Capital Rod and Gun Club. Coweta, OK
Method: Barreled action screwed to the wooded base, as shown in Overhaul X.
Board "C" clamped to bench 2x.
String tied to trigger.
All ammo seated into chamber w/ finger pressure.
5 shots taken with no cooling time between shots.
Time between strings: 2 minutes average.
All testing finished in one day.
All images will be posted asap. ( Leaving for church now.)




Last edited by RET; 12-19-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 05:54 PM
RET
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O ring test.

This a functional ammo test, not a scientific test. I am not trying to prove or disprove anything. I am looking for observable results only. I could list the assumptions associated with this post, but that is beyond the scope of my efforts. Contributions welcome, because I will test all ammo again asap.

This link influenced my test, www . rim fire shooting . com >> then look up >> Suhl homemade barrel tuner rubber O ring deresonator. This link refuses to post properly.

( along with building rifles since 1974, working at Browning warranty repair and being the chief gunsmith for the East coast repair station for every major firearms brand in the US in the late 70's.)

Here goes. This post will have 3 parts.

A. Testing for location on the barrel of O ring(s) with a single ammo.
B. Testing for optimum amount of O rings with a single ammo.
C. Testing a variety of ammo for the most accurate brand in this rifle, while O ring(s) are applied.

---------------------------------------------

A. Testing for location on the barrel of O ring(s) with a single ammo @ 25 yds.
Calm except as noted on the image.
Centurion ammo on A. and B. for a control.


Barreled action is mounted to the board I mentioned earlier and "C" clamped to bench. No O ring applied. First 5 shots from this configuration in RIGHT SIDE pic #3 in this series.


Two O rings applied. ( I could have used 1, but did not. ) Location was randomly chosen distance from muzzle. Second 5 shots from this configuration in LEFT SIDE pic #3 in this series


Right pic. Ammo fired from barrel not cleaned for several months. First shot has mark to the hole. No O rings applied.
Left pic has 1 round of ammo dropped on concrete and used. May have had influence on the flyer or not. Two O rings were applied.



O rings rolled back about 3/8. and kept together.


O rings rolled back about 3/8. and kept together.


O rings rolled back about 3/8. and kept together.


Conclusion from this series: The O rings have an impact of shot dispersion. No or very little wind in all of these pics.

More to come,

ret

Last edited by RET; 12-20-2010 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:38 PM
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O-Rings and Shot Dispersion

Very interesting experiment.

I wouldn't have believed a few o-rings would have an impact
on shot dispersion.
The o-rings maybe acting as vibration dampener/tuner.
But, having such a slight mass ... one would think the rings would have little or not effect.

I wonder what effect massive o-rings would have - donut size?
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:33 AM
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Testing

I am following your tests with interest however I'm concerned about drawing conclusions based on single 5 shot groups. I know shooting 5 or even 10 groups of each variation give a more accurate representation of the results and then an average group size can be determined. When I test my rifles I shoot 10 shot groups at a minimum and the ammo that shows promise I will go back and shoot several more times to confirm the initial results. Nothing worse than thinking you've found something that shoots good then not being able to duplicate your initial results - I KNOW!!
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:41 AM
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B. Testing for optimum amount of O rings with a single ammo.

2 O rings.



3 = O rings.



4 = O rings.




5 = O rings.



Degradation is apparent with 5 O rings.
------------------------

General about the next 5 PICS.
Compare: 2 O rings ( NEXT 3 PICS ) with 3 O rings (FOLLOWING 2 PICS.) Close.. I will measure and repeat asap. Notice ring placement on barrel is closer to muzzle on 3 rings.

Next 3 pics are all 2 rings. First has rings further back, next two pics closer to muzzle. Middle pic has a note indicating 6 shots fired not 5. Last 2 pics have rings closer to muzzle than first 2 ring pic.





Next 2 pics are 3 rings at same position as pics above.




Conclusion= More O rings degrade dispersion. Perhaps the O rings begin to have an influence beyond the barrel node that nullifies benefit of the O ring close to or on the node. Since there is apparent degradation in more rings, I will stay with 2 O rings, because 3 MAY have a benefit, and I cannot know when the degradation begins. I believe more influence is generated by PLACEMENT of ring verses more rings. Logically more rings soon would cover the barrel and void benefits but merely add weight to the barrel.



More to come,

ret

Last edited by RET; 12-20-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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More testing needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenG View Post
I am following your tests with interest however I'm concerned about drawing conclusions based on single 5 shot groups. I know shooting 5 or even 10 groups of each variation give a more accurate representation of the results and then an average group size can be determined. When I test my rifles I shoot 10 shot groups at a minimum and the ammo that shows promise I will go back and shoot several more times to confirm the initial results. Nothing worse than thinking you've found something that shoots good then not being able to duplicate your initial results - I KNOW!!
Exactly, but I had to do all testing in one sitting, night was coming and wind was becoming a factor. All tests will need to be repeated later, but must start somewhere. Great comment though. More thoughts are welcome.

A side note. This barrel had no constriction at muzzle prior to shortening.

More to come,

ret

Last edited by RET; 12-21-2010 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:04 PM
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This is all very intersting...RET
Will be checking in & reading.
I have played a bit with the Sims device but didn't do anything like serious testing.
http://www.limbsaverproducts.com/ind...products_id=31

Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 12-20-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:22 PM
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C. Testing a variety of ammo for the most accurate brand in this rifle, while O ring(

The dual begins!

In the order fired, under the conditions described @ beginning of post.

















Well..there you have it.

Last edited by RET; 12-20-2010 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:23 PM
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Same conditions except 50 yds.

In the order fired. Wind was very slight, but noticeable.



















All for now. Comments / questions are welcome.

Test will be repeated another time.

More to come,


ret

Last edited by RET; 12-20-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:18 PM
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amazing results! just from a few o-rings in the right spot.

...hmm, this will throw a spanner in the works: what would happen if you removed the o-rings and re-tested the different ammo brands? would you find that a different brand would be most accurate? or would it be the same one but with slightly wider shot dispersion?
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:19 PM
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It is a little amazing when

one considers the ease with which this may be accomplished. I have been aware of it for years, but never tested anything. No different than the concept of slight up pressure on the end of a stock, on a light barrel...... and that is recognized as contributing to better accuracy with specific barrels.

And, no different outcomes than those huge toilet plungers on barrels for the same purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoski View Post
amazing results! just from a few o-rings in the right spot.

...hmm, this will throw a spanner in the works: what would happen if you removed the o-rings and re-tested the different ammo brands? would you find that a different brand would be most accurate? or would it be the same one but with slightly wider shot dispersion?
>>> Clarify please.<<<<<<



I fired this barrel with all of this same ammo a few months ago, and accuracy was much less ...across the board. I thought I posted it here. If anyone knows where it is, put a link here to compare everything.

The shots were all at 25 yds. for the pre- "O" ring ammo test.

I posted the link to my original thought of doing my own test on >>> 12-19-2010, 04:54 PM on this very thread. This site refuses to show the link to the other rimfire site, so I spelled it out. Check it out yourself.

"This link influenced my test, www . rim fire shooting . com >> then look up >> Suhl homemade barrel tuner rubber O ring deresonator. This link refuses to post properly."

More testing to come,

ret

Last edited by RET; 12-21-2010 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:19 PM
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Site Blocked

RET, I think the site is blocked - intentionally.
Long story ... and, I don't know all of it.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
RET, I think the site is blocked - intentionally.
Long story ... and, I don't know all of it.
Ya thats sight is blocked.
I do know most of it..... It all happened in my second year here on RFC.

Thanks for the info...RET
Nice read, I wouldn't mind trying the heat shrink trick...

Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 12-21-2010 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest swiss View Post
Ya thats sight is blocked.
I do know most of it..... It all happened in my second year here on RFC.

Thanks for the info...RET
Nice read, I wouldn't mind trying the heat shrink trick...

Swiss
Heat Shrink Trick?

ret
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RET View Post
Heat Shrink Trick?

ret
Go to the last page of the "Suhl homemade barrel tuner rubber O ring deresonator"
Tony Q.C.I.S puts a link to how he got some electrical heat shrink & installed
it on his entire barrel & claims it works.
I am a member of that web sight also....I don't go on there very much.
Heck I don't post on here on RFC all that much either....

Swiss

Last edited by midwest swiss; 12-22-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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