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  #1  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:00 PM
coloradogeezer

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My anology of the Hm2 vs HMR debate



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I think it is much like the comparison of the 22 Hornet vs the .223 Remington!


The Hm2 is much like the 22 Hornet. It is smaller, less powder charge, solid accuracy and very "efficient" as a cartridge.

The HMR is much like the .223 Remington. It is larger, more powder capacity, solid accuracy and FASTER than the Hornet.

Which gets back to The Law of Diminishing Returns, whereas the 17 HMR will likely always "win out" in the court of "public opinion" because it "has more" in all respects, but the COST for that "slight" MORE, it quite surprising, really.

Hm2 does a LOT of things, REALLY WELL. The HMR does a FEW things, a "little" bit better, at a "little" bit more distance, but not a LOT, considering the price difference.

The "irony" here, is that I think that if Hm2 rifles were essentially "reintroduced" RIGHT NOW, considering the current economic conditions present, a LOT OF SHOOTERS would quickly ascertain that the Hm2 is a HUGE BARGAIN compared to the slight "gain" afforded by the HMR for a LOT more money for the ammo.


If I were a manufacturer right now, I'd be "reintroducing" the Hm2 to the general public, HARDCORE, right now, with a massive marketing blitz emphasizing it's true capabilities at a "fraction of the price" of HMR ammo, with just a slight decrease in range and killing power, for what most people use a rimfire for.

They could make a killing. (The manufacturers, that is)

THIS, is the TIME, when people are LOOKING for VALUE and some THRIFT in a round that does MUCH of what an HMR can do, but at a "Fraction of the price" and with all the accuracy.

Apparently, the manufacturers of both rifles and ammo, have "thrown in the towel" on the Hm2.

What a shame.

It "did" and "does" have so much to offer.

And at a price that the "normal guy" or gal, can actually afford to shoot and enjoy without "breaking the bank"

Well, just my 2 cents!
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:08 PM
mudgripz

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Good thoughts...and right on the money in a literal sense.

It's a pity the hm2 hasn't caught on. It is really just a little 22 on steroids, but its flat trajectory and comparatively lower cost make it a very appealing 22 round.

One of the best new cartridges in the last 30 years not to catch on in a big way.
I wonder what others might fit into this category.
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:02 PM
ballistx
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gotta disagree

I have to disagree with the position that the HM2 is going away. Yes, there has been some dropping off of demand and the rifle manufacturers have backed off some.

But I believe it has what it takes to perservere. The 17HMR will compete with the 22WMR, but that is its only real competitor. It can't compete with the 5mm Mag except in availability. The 5mm is available for about $17/box so it is a little more expensive but nothing when considering the few rounds shot just for hunting.

The 17hm2 gives up nothing to the HMR in accuracy to 100yds and is much cheaper to shoot. The HM2 doesn't have to compete with the 22WMR or the 17HMR. It competes with the 22lr where it prevails in most areas. It beats the 22lr all to hollow when you compare accuracy vs cost. I am shooting $3.50/50 hm2 and can't begin to buy any 22's that will give me that kind of accuracy for that kind of money.


There may be some hunting situation where the 22lr prevails but I think the 17HM2 beats in the overall. The only place that the 22lr prevails clearly is in cheap plinking. And with the bulk ammo going up that gap is closing. And the reaction targets go to the HM2.


So, my belief is that the 17HMR will gradually fall to the same category as the 22WMR, overshadowed by the 22 hornet, 222, 223. If you are going to spend that much you might as well reload.

I am getting tired of fighting all the variables trying to shoot decent groups with the 22LR short of buying $12/box target ammo & a near custom rifle.

All in all, I think the 22lr will remain most popular, the 17hm2 next, the 17hmr, then the 22wmr, and finally the 5mm mag.

jmho
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:14 PM
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ryndisher
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I don't know what the big deal is .17hmr is only $11, twice the cost of .22lr for half the ammo. It is worth the money as it is a varmint caliber try taking down a coyote with a HM2.
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:14 PM
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I love the HM2 for it's flat trajectory. Works just fine on ground squirrels at 100yds as well.
I just bought a 2nd hand Cooper JSR in HM2 and a case of 5000 rounds to feed it. As rarely as I shoot I doubt I'll ever empty the case. If I moved to the sticks I'd be happy to cycle the bolt that many times in year but that's not gonna happen any time soon.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:53 PM
gary w
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I concur with your thoughts however was not aware that the mfgs have all but given up on the fantastic lil round....

For me I have been hooked on it since it first came out. I didn't even want one but had a Cabelas gift certificate so bought a GM barrel for my 77/22 lr and converted it. The conversion was hard on my heart but after doing it there was no looking back and now have a CZ, Contender, Marlin and some chipmunks in the awesome caliber

The biggest problem i have ever run into with it is whoever gets to shoot my 77/17 HM2 does not want to give it up. Throw one 10 rd mag in the mag well and 4 more in you pocket and you are ready for some fast furious pd shooting....

Mad dad got his first last weekend with it



And so did my nephew


I only have two balls and neither arte crystal so no predictions here but long live the HM2!!!!
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2009, 01:13 AM
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I'm sorry, did you say you have Chipmunk rifles in mach 2? how the heck did that happen? did you build it, was it factory, come on , give up the info...
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:16 AM
ShelbyFan

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Originally Posted by ryndisher View Post
I don't know what the big deal is .17hmr is only $11, twice the cost of .22lr for half the ammo. It is worth the money as it is a varmint caliber try taking down a coyote with a HM2.
Do you really want to get into whether the HMR, or any rimfire, should be used to hunt coyote? Really?

Plus, HMR is well above 11 bucks anymore. You might be able to find it online, but in stores many places are hitting 18 bucks.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:02 PM
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The 17M2 isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay. It's a great hunting round, with that flat trajectory and polymer tipped bullet, ricochets are few and it really does the job on small game

As for it being more accurate than the 22LR, I might question that. Sure at $3.50 a box for ammo, it's hard to find a 22LR ammo that does as well. And if the 17M2 really catches on, there might be some real work done in developing target loads that are as accurate as the top end 22LR ammo from Eley and Lapua, probably at a lower cost.

But I like the 22LR. It's slow, but it doesn't burn up bores, and a 17M2 bore won't last as long as a 22LR bore. And cleaning is much more work with my 17M2 -- I have to clean and remove copper fouling every 50-75 rounds, while my 22LR bores can go 500-1000 of rounds of half-MOA accuracy before I need to clean them with some solvent and patches.

I think the 17M2 is a great round. It's not going to disappear, but it won't replace the 22LR, either.
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2009, 04:25 PM
RWAL

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Originally Posted by timberbeast63 View Post
The 17M2 isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay. It's a great hunting round, with that flat trajectory and polymer tipped bullet, ricochets are few and it really does the job on small game

As for it being more accurate than the 22LR, I might question that. Sure at $3.50 a box for ammo, it's hard to find a 22LR ammo that does as well. And if the 17M2 really catches on, there might be some real work done in developing target loads that are as accurate as the top end 22LR ammo from Eley and Lapua, probably at a lower cost.

But I like the 22LR. It's slow, but it doesn't burn up bores, and a 17M2 bore won't last as long as a 22LR bore. And cleaning is much more work with my 17M2 -- I have to clean and remove copper fouling every 50-75 rounds, while my 22LR bores can go 500-1000 of rounds of half-MOA accuracy before I need to clean them with some solvent and patches.

I think the 17M2 is a great round. It's not going to disappear, but it won't replace the 22LR, either.
Couple of years ago I would have agreed with you 100%. Now .22LR has almost doubled in price. From my experience its much more work to get accuracy out of the round. Its less reliable and that goes triple in cold temps.
My HM2s have past the test of time and I am getting less interested in the .22LR the more I compare the two.
My analogy of .17 HM2 to .22LR would be something like a laser beam compared to a pebble launched from a makeshift double D cup slingshot.
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mudgripz View Post
It's a pity the hm2 hasn't caught on. It is really just a little 22 on steroids, but its flat trajectory and comparatively lower cost make it a very appealing 22 round.





I don't know if I am just misunderstanding your post or what but the 17 HM2 is not 22 cal. The .17 HM2 is based on the .22 Long Rifle case, slightly lengthened and necked down to .17 caliber.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:32 AM
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I don't know if I am just misunderstanding your post or what but the 17 HM2 is not 22 cal. The .17 HM2 is based on the .22 Long Rifle case, slightly lengthened and necked down to .17 caliber.
Since you are being nit picky and correcting him, I will correct you.

The HM2 is based off the 22 STINGER casing, the 17 Aguila and PMC are based off the 22LR.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:59 AM
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You did misunderstand Jack - I have a rack full of rimfires and well aware of .17s caliber, cases etc.

Have been watching this little round for years - strikes me as a brilliant little shooter out to 125 yards.

Am doing a build on one of the tribal 22s at the moment - bedding, floating, recrowning etc and if it achieves a good accuracy standard I might convert my norinco em 332 to 17m2. Local gunsmith tells me it would make an excellent chassis for rebarrelling. Very tempting - but then again you can pick up the 17m2 marlins readily at a good price and they seem to be very sharp little shooters.

In New Zealand CCI minimag brick is about $50US, 17m2 about $85, and 17hmr round $150 - all for 500 rounds. So big plusses there for the 17m2 in these tighter times. I'm sure I'll end up with one - likely a marlin bolt.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2009, 07:59 AM
ballistx
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comparing

which is best? 22lr, 17hm2, 17hmr, 22WMR, 5mm?????

Guess I will sit and eat an "apple, orange, peach, or maybe a pear"... mmmm which would be better????
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2009, 08:11 AM
jack19512

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Originally Posted by ShelbyFan View Post
Since you are being nit picky and correcting him, I will correct you.

The HM2 is based off the 22 STINGER casing, the 17 Aguila and PMC are based off the 22LR.






Uh, not being nit picky at all. It just come off to me like mudgripz was describing the 17 HM2 round like it was a 22 cal round. I even admitted I might be misunderstanding his post.

And professor, no need to correct me. The stinger case is nothing more than a slightly lengthened 22 lr case. I didn't use the word "stinger" simply because believe it or not there are some people that are not familiar with the stinger ammo.

I believe what I posted in my previous post is accurate, maybe just not accurate enough to suit you. And mudgripz, I do apologize for misunderstanding your post.
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