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  #61  
Old 02-13-2010, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
I believe of a product is domestically produced in the USA,
the country of origin marking is not required.
Well he had 2 with the same serial# and both have blue lightes reticles! But for the airsoft they make a great fit, and no need to impress these people, because to them Bushnell and Tasco are prefered brands and some don't even know what a Leupold is!! Not sure I would trust it on a magnum, but for a BB gun that shoots pastic its a good buy!
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  #62  
Old 05-13-2010, 11:59 PM
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The Peoples Army, the same clowns that were Red Guards as teenagers are still in charge. They sign every trade aggrement handed to them and then do as they please.

I get stuck going over on business. None of this is a secret. Anything made someplace else is counterfitted there. Where they fail is that they don't know what quality is because they have been isolated.

The Great Fire Wall of China: Yesterday they blocked Google, today it's AOL. Verizon service is either excellent or non-existant. Anyone who understands good English isn't checking me into the hotel....they are monitoring my phone conversations and e-mail looking for that edge. We are loosing WW3.

PS: The kids like us, and are cool....all the old guys my age....in their 50's.....hate our guts!

PSS: Don't put Japanese Optics in the same class as China. Japan is the worlds largest maker of optical glass using state of the art equipment. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that Leupold, Leica, or Svorsky is using Japanese glass.

PSSS: Expect another major oil spill....from a Chinese SuperTanker breaking in half. Their ships look good from a 1000 yards but are as well made as their fake scopes.
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  #63  
Old 06-26-2010, 10:55 PM
Gary C
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In watching Leupold's 'Factory Tour' video (apparently made in 2009) they do all the optics design and prescriptions in house, and then send out to 'major glass houses' to have the actual glass ground.

So, it is very possible that Leupold is using Japanese glass in their products. However, I for one would have no issue with that since Japanese glass is used in a variety of camera lenses by different manufacturers and I have no issues with them, either.

Gary
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  #64  
Old 09-25-2010, 01:40 PM
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I realize this is old news to many folks. However, the link was forwarded to me by another member in order to clarify a point (and clarify + educate it did). the member also e-mailed me an OLD e-bay offering that was worded in such a manner as to imply the scope was the "real deal" - without actually saying same.

The obviously low price for what was claimed to be "new in the box" would be a tip-of to most folks. Yet, as noted above, someone new to scopes who came across the "ad' might not be aware the price was some 400% lower than the name brand. Heck, even some veterans might bite if they did not know the price of the name brand. "They should know", some might say. However, we don't always know what is current in any line of firearm accessories - especially in this economy. If the price is in a range we were hoping to find and the specs were right there as well - it may be purchased. The unknowing buyer could go a long while, maybe forever, thinking he got a heck of deal and excellent quality.

So ............ for this 'new kid in rehab' the information was not in the, "What's the point of this thread?", category. It falls into the, "Thanks for the education - based on fact, not simply opinion". What the heck - a refresher / reminder is always good now and then; even for those 'pros at buying' who find such topics, "old hat".
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  #65  
Old 09-28-2010, 09:15 PM
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Leupold is giveing us the bone anyways. 6 1/2 x 20 viii sf 30mm tube fd, runs about 750 to 800. Real cost is 356.72 This is true, picked up 3 of them from a custom rifle maker who also only puts LEUPOLDS on his rifles. He sold me those 3 and got in trouble with LEUPOLD for only marking them up 30% ***?? I paid 509.60. So what do you think of the great LEUPOLD NOW. RAPE
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  #66  
Old 09-17-2011, 02:11 AM
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I know I'm really coming in late on this thread, but the information is still very valid and serves as an excellent training and informational thread.

I'm one of those newbies you're all talking about. I'm not offended at the implications of being a newbie because WE all started on this trail at one point or another. Now that I'm finally retired from the work place, I have more time to devote to this new avocation. Started off with a NIB Smith & Wesson 41, 7 inch barrel, just purchased yesterday . Sweet looking. Now, I'm trolling this site looking for your knowledge and your advice. I don't want to make too many mis-steps in the beginning. My carry is a Glock 23 and since we travel alot in the summer, it's a great comfort, but I want to get into the other aspects of this avocation (OK, so it's a sophisticated hobby). SWMBO wanted to get me out of the house (she's retired as well) and ... now you, as Paul Harvey would say.... that's the rest of the story.

I was aware of the counterfiting problems from overseas with other products (records, books, cameras etc....etc) and thanks to this thread, well, it's a real eye-opener. Fortunately I have a good relationship with the local brick and mortar gun shops and can trust to get reliable products and advice, (well at least an opinion), from them, but.... I guess the best thing to do is to go to the manufacturers website, if I can, and find out what they're asking MSRP, then use that as a comparison to similar offerings, either locally or on the internet. As has been hinted at previously in this thread, if it sounds too good to be true, time to fold up the tent and run away.....

I know eBay is used alot, but I've been burned there so I'm, if you'll excuse the phrase, gun-shy with ebay offerings.

I like the feel of this site and think we're going to become fast friends.

So, in conclusion, pardon me if I make mistakes or misunderstand a point or two, but I'm truly here to learn. Be gentle, I take enough flak from my shooting partners, who also btw are newbie members on this site.

Fortunately the gun club I joined has some excellent instructors and I'm lined up for many of their classes.

~Dave
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  #67  
Old 09-17-2011, 02:44 AM
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Newbie

NWDAVE

Welcome to the community.

I have only been a member since January and I did a lot of research before I selected RFC. One of the best decisions I have made in awhile.

Your "be gentle" comment (I love that) will work with these guys unless you start posting stuff like shooting coke cans at 340 yards with a .22lr during a hurricane and hit 2 in a row and implied it was not so hard to do, in which case you will politely and sometimes not so politely be told you are FOS. That's kinda a local universal joke cause some guy actually posted that on a YouTube. . . . not from RFC though but made an interested thread.

Other than stuff like that, the members responses I have seen are "gentle" and professional as long as your are. If you act like a jerk the fangs come out from the members. . . . both guys and gals.

Better figure out how to post pics though cause they are a big time demand. Also allocate more money for ammo and guns. This place is addictive for both.

You can even shoot cr&ppy groups and you will get tons of help and very little judgement in response albeit we have people with dry humour IMO.

noremf(George)
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  #68  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Leupold is giveing us the bone anyways. 6 1/2 x 20 viii sf 30mm tube fd, runs about 750 to 800. Real cost is 356.72 This is true, picked up 3 of them from a custom rifle maker who also only puts LEUPOLDS on his rifles. He sold me those 3 and got in trouble with LEUPOLD for only marking them up 30% ***?? I paid 509.60. So what do you think of the great LEUPOLD NOW. RAPE
An no, its quite a bit more than that, cost is over $500, is this post a joke?
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  #69  
Old 07-14-2013, 07:53 PM
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I know that it's already a sticky, but I thought that I'd bump it to the top as there has been some recent discussion on the subject in the Open Rimfire forum.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=509923

Just something to be mindful of when purchasing scopes on the auction sites and online classifieds.
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  #70  
Old 08-05-2015, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aom22 View Post
Counterfeit AIMPOINT® COMP - Double Click PRODUCTS, then select specific product at left

I have seven of what I would swear is this exact same optic. Externally looking at three right now that are dead ringers. Five of mine that look just like this came in Burris boxes marketed as the XTS-135 and says made in China on box and warranty papers inside say warranties are 12 months through Burris. I sent email to Burris back in January with serial numbers of the seven I purchased and was told they were Burris products and 12 months was correct warranty. I sold two to a friend of the seven to leave with five. I purchased four that are identical to my Burris marked with Bushnell logo and in Bushnell boxes. Confirmed via phone call my serials and box info was correct. My guess is Aimpoint may have outsourced the machining of the housing our more of this product, once the Chinese get the specifications and tool up to make a product for a U.S. company they don't stop at end of contract. They keep making and then market under some name of the week or sell to other U.S. companies.

I first saw this trend in rock climbing equipment about 12 years ago. Started with climbing shoes, a top notch shoe company would contract for x thousand pairs, then after they went to market with latest shoe, within 90 days some company never heard of was selling identical shoe. Moved quickly into garment industry when Patagonia moved their sewing off shore to Asia then moved into hardware.

Now, no matter what your industry, if you contract with a Chinese company to make an item or major component for one of your items then soon that subcomponent will be filled with Chinese guts and competing directly against you. If you contracted for entire item, they will dumb down the quality of electronics and optics then be knocking on your customers doors.

Check ebay for scope mounts. There are two different companies selling exact copies of the Burris P.E.P.R. mount for under $50 bucks. I bought one bolt on for $39 N.I.B. in 30mm and came with spacers to use with 1" scopes which Burris does not provide in kit and all measurements were same and when put lapping kit to it was just as true as all of my Burris units. If a company is dumb enough to give all their technical drawings to a Chinese maker, pay them to tool up and produce, they are goofy if don't expect their product to be compromised immediately. It's what Chinese do as don't respect international or U.S. patent law.

Quite a while back I picked up a Fluke 87V meter in my electrical supply and box said made in China. I always bought Fluke because made right and in U.S.A. Asked my supplier what's up and said could get U.S. Fluke also as military and specific government agencies had to buy U.S. meters. Kicker is said what Fluke was doing is having certain percentage made, assembled and packaged in China to save money. Then to keep their government and military contracts had all the sub assemblies made in same Chinese plants but shipped in pieces to U.S. for final assembly. Basically biggest amount of work legal as far as subassemblies done in Asia, then cases, displays, circuit boards, keypads, etc shipped to U.S. assembly plant for final assembly, quality control testing, packaging and marked as U.S. product. I still pay the 10% to 15% premium for U.S. Flukes so at least some Americans getting paid to do more of the work, U.S. models have better warranties and I hope that the U.S. worker's put a tad more care into work. I don't necessarily believe it but it makes me feel better to tell myself that. If my info is wrong, correction is appreciated.

Basically once an item or major ccomponent are farmed to Asia knock offs are going to follow. Unfortunately some products have to be made off shore as EPA has come down so hard on specific industries it's about only solution. Look at batteries, cast iron, anything that is nasty to make. Much of the cast iron coming out of China is better than U.S. as can use techniques EPA, and practices OSHA have banned to protect environment and workers.

As said, purchased a bunch of the unit pictured in this O.P., kept most and sold some. I bought a used Bushnell branded as a take off at a local gun store for $40. The seven N.I.B. Burris units paid $99 for five and $79 for two all sealed in original boxes with shrink wrap. Bought one Bushnell new and other two used. All but one are mounted, cowitness great on AR15's and several have been used and abused without a single failure. Two are mounted on FN FAL's in 308 with one being a 16" barrel short gas that is a burly recoiling machine. Three are mounted on AR 15's in 6.8 spc II with two being 14.7" barrel versions. Not hard pounders but one has over 500 rounds and other over 1,300 rounds to date. The 16" short gas FAL has over 300 rounds and optic still holds zero.

If this chassis is showing up on multiple brands and as knock off to Aimpoint, my guess if look enough can probably find same thing being sold somewhere with name like Moro or GoGo for $29 bucks or so. If can find may buy one to see if has exact same controls, number of brightness settings, uses same batteries and stick on a battle rifle and see if it holds up to a few hundred rounds of 150 grain 30 caliber bullets beating it up. If find it cheap, proves to be same as others have and is cheap may buy a box full. My over 50 eyes are not doing as well with irons as they did at 40 and younger thus adding optics to my fighting rifles is stinging my pockets. While the Burris/Bushnell versions am using are not as slick as my aluminum C-More's, Fastfire III's, Trijicon RMR's, etc. 35 years of collecting AR's, M1a's, FN's and more means have a lot of rifles that a red dot would be appreciated. While prefer a real Leupold scope in Larue Tactical mount with Trijicon RRMR'S top for combination of distance and CQB, can't just pony up to do that to all the rifles need to bypass irons on now. Till money for nice optics slowly catches up with inventory, a few inexpensive red dots would not be ignored. Welcome to the new world. We wanted Wallyworld prices on Ferrari's and Colts, thus we are getting fine China that resembles the real thing. It sucks but we did it to ourselves.

I will be more careful when shopping for my Leupold's, Trijicon, etc but luckily Burris is pretty straight up on owning up to their Chinese product and except for P.E.P.R mounts seem to charge fair price and product seems fine thus far.
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  #71  
Old 09-16-2015, 08:28 AM
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I just wanted to share my experience with a counterfeit Leupold Mark 4. I was looking at AR10s at a large gun shop in Buffalo, NY. They claimed to only have one in stock for the model I wanted. It had a Mark 4 mounted and they would not separate it. I had never looked at a scope that expensive, but it was a good deal. The first sign was that the threads for the illumination battery cap were crappy. I noticed this at the store and they said they would mail me a replacement cap.

When I got the gun home I was looking it over more closely of course and noticed some rough quality looking through the scope. The glass was nice and the reticle clear, but I could see magnified threads and tool marks on the edges. The turrets did not feel nice and surely did not seem like a $1500 scope. I had never even heard of counterfeit scopes but this just didn't seem right. I did a little research and learned of their existence. I verified the "serial number" and yep, fake. I drove straight to the gun store and the show they put on was entertaining. They wanted to know how I thought it was a fake. Well I called Leupold with the serial number. They exchanged the scope for a real one and gave me a $5 tube of worthless lithium lube. What is irritating is that at the time I was a rookie in the gun and optics world and I noticed it. The store had to have known. I didn't raise a stink after noticing the large LEO support the store had. I was told that was a smart move.

Can't trust anyone these days....
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  #72  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CH47gunner View Post
What about the poor schlep that buys it 2nd hand? What about the guy who's just getting interested in firearms? You think, after buying "premium" optics at a cut-rate price, he's going to be buying any more Leupold's soon?

RE THIS:

¦ If you think the counterfeits aren't going to be passed as the real thing, I've some swampland for you.

I find the "you must be on crack" comment as coming out of left field. You may have the experience, I may have the experience to tell the difference. There's a lot of people out there who won't.
¦

You are so right.
And as far as "laws on the book"they do NOT mean a thing if they are selectively enforced or just purposely not enforced at all. The old "put up a nice front" to cover your nefarious activity.

Not everyone here has the money to afford the best optics. So our familiarity with and recognition of how genuine a Leopold, Swavorski, Dr, etc is lacking. Yes, I have handled Leopolds and Swavorskis at times, including the Shot Show. That hardly qualifies me to recognize a fake. But we are smart enough to know that not all Chinese goods are marked as such. Just as Nazi stamps, SA, etc have been applied to increase selling price of mil-surps, and some sellers have "enhanced" replicas so they can be sold as originals, a lot of these fake optics will be showing up as "genuine" on the web and even at gun shows.

But, as Judge Judy says, " If it (the price, here) sounds to good to be true, it probably is."
But, some people have proven that the bigger the lie that they tell, the more likely it will be believed. And so the cleverest cons selling this stuff will keep the price jacked to calm suspicion.
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  #73  
Old 01-28-2017, 11:54 PM
Brian10956
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Going back to when junk was coming out of Japan in the 50s and 60s the Japanese came up with a slick idea. They named a town Usa and the exported to here with the labe made in USA it took a while before they corrected them
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  #74  
Old 07-01-2017, 04:02 PM
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Ebay buyer BEWARE! Fake scopes!

I've spent quite a while reading this thread and one thing that came up several times was that you get what you pay for. Not necessarily so. There is a seller on Ebay selling fake leupold scopes. I bought one but didn't receive it yet. Paid $30 so of course it's a fake. The point is Ebay knows as he sets up under different names and list the scope the day after he opens an account. He also lists the location as a US city which changes with each scope. The items now are VX1 and VX2 models. Mine has been in China for the last 6 days. Here is the thing, I knew it was a fake and bought it for some fun with this guy. I send him messages to let him know I know. Ebay has removed several of his listings after I pointed him out. Now back to your statement you get what you pay for. This guy has switched from listing scopes at $30 to putting them up for bid and I saw one go for $181. Pay pal froze his account so he can't get his money until 3 days after I receive the scope and am satisfied It is the item described. I selected this scope because the upc code was given as well as the model which are both Leupold.
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  #75  
Old 07-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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Well my Leupold scope is still in China as of this morning. Seller took a shortcut from Ga to Pa through China which I never knew existed. Pay pal refunded my money several days ago. Now I knew this was a fake but I wanted to see what a VX1 fake looked like. Here is the thing we as Americans have to remember. While those of us who have been at this sport may be able to tell a fake there are others who can't. These people may buy a fake and write a review that is 1 or 2 stars thinking they are talking about a real Leupold. I for one read reviews. If enough fakes get reviewed Leupold could lose sales. That means American jobs lost. So if you know of fakes report it. Remember you were a newbie once. On another note. Ebay refunded my money because the scope wasn't delivered. Had it been I still could have gotten a refund because it wasn't as described BECAUSE the seller listed the upc code. This number is item specific world wide. If you google a upc # the item will show up. Make sure the upc code is displayed and check it out.
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