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Old 10-15-2019, 05:58 PM
Noknot

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Pillar bedding a 452 American



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Was thinking about pillar bedding my 452. How would that work with so little room around the magazine well and trigger?
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:04 PM
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search results from advanced search
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...rchid=34713267
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:15 PM
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I just perused the advanced search results that Hawkeye57 posted.
There are several threads with titles about 452 American bedding, but none of them are tutorials. I pillar bedded several CZ Rifles, and did tutorial/pic heavy threads on a 452 Varmint and a 452 Silhouette. Not exactly the same, but close enough to be relevant and probably helpful.

You can find them in a Sticky at the top of the CZ forum thread list.

Here is a link:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=553474

Let me know if you have any questions.

One tip- don’t free float the barrel. Bed it up to and include the barrel lug if it has one, if not- bed the action and 2-3” of barrel in front of the receiver, then use a pressure pad in the barrel channel.

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Old 10-15-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
I just perused the advanced search results that Hawkeye57 posted.
There are several threads with titles about 452 American bedding, but none of them are tutorials. I pillar bedded several CZ Rifles, and did tutorial/pic heavy threads on a 452 Varmint and a 452 Silhouette. Not exactly the same, but close enough to be relevant and probably helpful.

You can find them in a Sticky at the top of the CZ forum thread list.

Here is a link:


https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=553474

Let me know if you have any questions.

One tip- don’t free float the barrel. Bed it up to and include the barrel lug if it has one, if not- bed the action and 2-3” of barrel in front of the receiver, then use a pressure pad in the barrel channel.

DrGunner
Thanks. I will let you know if I have questions
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:27 PM
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Why not free float the barrel?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowillis View Post
Why not free float the barrel?
It’s an American, which means slender pencil barrel.
IME, most narrow gauge sporter barrels shoot best with a pressure pad- but not all.
I meticulously tested with different bedding configurations, starting with pillar bedding and free floating the barrels on a CZ 452 Varmint and 452 Silhouette.
Both rifles had been extensively tested for accuracy prior to the bedding job. Both barrels exhibited a significant increase in group size, particularly vertical dispersion after pillar bedding with free float. I added back pressure pads using the method described below to find the best location for each rifle, and found in both cases that CZ places the barrel lug in the right spot. I ended up going back and redoing the bedding on both rifles up to and including the barrel lug with custom short pillar/escutcheons installed there. Both rifles improved significantly in accuracy and shot better than they did prior to the entire bedding job. I also pillar bedded a 452 Scout & 452 Style and used pressure pads on those, both came up very similar to the OEM configuration. I realize that four rifles is not exactly a generous representative sample, but Ive found the same trends to hold true on many other sporter contours, including quite a few full custom 1022s. Free floating works better with heavy taper & bull barrels in my experience.


This is a copy and paste from an old post of mine regarding 1022 rifles, but the method and practical applications are relevant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner
Free Float vs Pressure Pad


If you have a free float, test shoot it first. Then skip down to the section describing testing with pressure pads.

And if you have contact between the barrel and stock, test shoot it first.

Then to create a free float for testing, put a thin washer or stack some aluminum tape under the front of the receiver surrounding the takedown screw area in order to elevate the front slightly and float the barrel. Then you can test it in that configuration without changing anything.

If it shoots better with the shim under the receiver, then sand out any contact areas in the barrel channel creating enough space for a free float. IMO, a dollar bill space is insufficient. I prefer one or two business cards, depending upon thickness but the rule of thumb I use is one business card for rimfire, two for centerfire. You are not creating space to tame horrendous barrel whip, but the amount that a stock can expand and contract with moisture and the amount of flex present when shooting off a bipod mounted to the front of the foreend can be enough to make a difference.

If it shoots better with contact between the barrel and stock, then the next stage of tuning will involve testing barrel contact with a pressure pad. I prefer slices of bicycle inner tube, of varying thicknesses. I make three, one of them 1 inch long, another 2 inches long, and another 3 inches long. Work with the one that is 2 inches long, and mark out your barrel channel in 1 inch increments. Start with the pressure pad right at the receiver, test shoot and then move it forward 1 inch, test shoot apply, lather, rinse, repeat. Once you find the "sweet spot", try the 1" and 3" pads at the same spot.
Pick the best of the three, then
work forward and back in 1/4" increments to fine tune.
When that's done, you will have found what I nickname the rifle's “G-spot”- as in “Good”. (Shame on all you perverts that thought otherwise.)


Then you just need to experiment with different size, thickness, and density of material before committing and gluing something in place. Once I find the “G spot” and have fine tuned the pad position in 1/4” increments, I then test different pad lengths. I prefer to experiment with different lengths by working in increments of 1/4” longer and shorter than the “best of 3” pad.


I prefer to use thin double sided adhesive tape to hold pressure pads in. Glue and epoxy can stiffen the pressure pad and change its properties.

It has been my experience that MOST, but not ALL .920/Bull barrels shoot better with a free float- which requires a rear tang or other hold down to achieve.
As a general rule, those bull barrels that do shoot better with a pressure pad usually perform best with the pressure pad very close, if not right against the takedown area/receiver. I have free floated many 20-21" .920 barrels weighing 3-4 lb mounted with a slip fit in all manner of receivers and have never seen the "weight of the barrel deform the receiver"...
I have seen droop induced by over tightening the V Block screws- one good remedy to prevent this is to use a Gunsmither Block which creates a straight pull.
It also helps to use a proper inch/lb torque wrench and torque them to 12-15 inch/lb MAX.

I have also seen droop in a rifle that had a sloppy fit between the barrel stub and counterbore in the receiver- the result of an out of spec stub in two cases and counterbore on a receiver twice. I have always been able to remedy that problem with Loctite 603.

My preference is the interference fit provided by the Kidd receivers. I use the heat/cold process and have never had a problem putting one together or taking one apart.


In my experience most Taper/Sporter profile barrel shoot best with a pressure pad, the distance from the receiver varies greatly but as a general rule of thumb-
In general, most of my heavy tapers and short (16.5-18”) barrels shoot best with a 1-1.5” pad placed 4-6” from the V-block. Most of my longer barrels (20-24”) do best with a 2-2.5” pad often very near the end of the barrel channel.

I do not claim this process to be "RIGHT", just what works for me.
There are exceptions to every rule.


Hope this helps-

DrGunner
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Last edited by DrGunner; 10-16-2019 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:10 PM
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Thanks for the explanation! I haven’t even shot my 452 American yet but I know I want it to be a laser
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noknot View Post
Was thinking about pillar bedding my 452. How would that work with so little room around the magazine well and trigger?
Its tricky- and the real challenge is actually the proximity between the sear and action screw. I created my own custom pillars, the rear had to be ground down on one side for clearance. I set the pillars in one step, with material supporting the barrel to my desired position. Then I packed the receiver, magwell and any danger areas with plumbers putty before bedding the entire action with Devcon 10110.
I had to mill out some of the compound after the fact, but managed to get it done each time without gluing my rifles together.

Too bad yours is an American- this Varmint stock came out great, and I subsequently moved the action to a custom Merier silhouette stock so this one is collecting dust in a closet:

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Old 10-16-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowillis View Post
Thanks for the explanation! I haven’t even shot my 452 American yet but I know I want it to be a laser
Well, I hope it gets there. You definitely want to shoot it first with some variation in match grade ammo before deciding anything. For example, I picked up a Anschutz 1712 earlier this year and it is a tack driver 100% out of the box. I will not be bedding that one anytime soon.

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Old 10-17-2019, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowillis View Post
Why not free float the barrel?
I concur to make sure the barrel is free floated. Then work/adjust the two action screws. Factory max setting is 25 INCH pounds on the action screws. See what yours is at and test with mid grade ammo with adjusting the action screws, and the barrel being free floated.

Both my action screws after target testing at 40 and 60 meters, stayed at 24 INCH pounds for my accuracy.

The type of ammo[mfg & grade] you use, will effect the barrel harmonics too.

As other have said, don't do anything, until you have the rifle configured properly, and testing w mid grade ammo. You just might get the group size you need for hunting purposes or for off hand shooting.

Would a 1/2" group at 50 yards, be good enough for you? 3/4" inch group at 80yds......for example. With the free floated barrel, Action Screws, and mid grade ammo, of course. What are you looking for in accuracy for your purpose?
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2019, 07:12 PM
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bedding a 455 fullstock

Does anyone have any experience bedding a FS version of the 455 for maximum accuracy. i can imagine that pillaring the action and than solid bedding the first 4 or 5 inches of the barrel would help--at least it would not hurt. The question is the barrel harmonic vibration.
On both mine the forend tip is pretty loose; enough that I doubt it effect harmonic vibration.

I'm thinking that a couple short u-shaped barrel support pads that would cradle the barrels lower surface could be made ---even made adjustable using fine threaded allen-bolts threaded up through an in-letted escutcheon in the stock fore-end to support them. I have seen adjustable "tuner" devices used under the barrel of competition rifles. they can be so effective that some traditional rifle competition groups prohibit them.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGunner View Post
Its tricky- and the real challenge is actually the proximity between the sear and action screw. I created my own custom pillars, the rear had to be ground down on one side for clearance. I set the pillars in one step, with material supporting the barrel to my desired position. Then I packed the receiver, magwell and any danger areas with plumbers putty before bedding the entire action with Devcon 10110.
I had to mill out some of the compound after the fact, but managed to get it done each time without gluing my rifles together.

Too bad yours is an American- this Varmint stock came out great, and I subsequently moved the action to a custom Merier silhouette stock so this one is collecting dust in a closet:

Might you be at all interested in selling that Varmint stock? If so, PM me, please.
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Last edited by OldSwede; 10-21-2019 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:47 PM
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The thing that is challenging about bedding the 452 American is the rear with the dovetailed insert. I made a special bedding pillar for this. See photos below. It worked out very well. It is sand blasted to grab the epoxy well. The upper end has a radius that is milled to mate to the action. The rifle shown below is a 17hmr so it did not really have a front pillar. I just had to build up the stock a little with epoxy. I make my pillars out of low carbon steel instead of aluminum. The front pillar is just a tube. Got some spares if interested PM me.

Nice bedding job DrGunner! Mine is nowhere near as nice.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CZ452 AM Bedding 1.JPG (310.8 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpeg CZ 452 AM Bedding 2.jpeg (304.8 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpeg CZ 452 Bedding 3.jpeg (334.2 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpeg CZ 452 AM Bedding 4.jpeg (353.4 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpeg CZ 452 AM Bedding 5.jpeg (186.9 KB, 68 views)

Last edited by pdeal; 10-22-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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