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  #16  
Old 10-15-2019, 02:15 PM
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If only the plant could be dedicated solely to the production of CZ 527 Full Stocks. We could possibly let a few, but very few, be exported.
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  #17  
Old 10-15-2019, 02:32 PM
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Maybe if we are lucky we will get a real custom shop when they open.
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  #18  
Old 10-15-2019, 03:49 PM
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I thought the p10,s were American made hense the low cost and many new variations available. They have a plant in NY. Dan Wesson

Last edited by thesandman; 10-15-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-15-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CZNUTT View Post
I live very close by the new site. I share the same concerns on quality going downhill. I have seen very few things increase in quality when changes are made such as this. On the other hand I have hope that it will remain the same or improve in some regard. Iím also hopeful they need some sort of medic or nurse on site


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I'd be happy if they would just implement a QC program!
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2019, 04:44 PM
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FN USA is quality firearms.
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GladesGuy View Post
When Honda started building cars in the US, people said the quality would go down but it didn't. It didn't because Honda as a global company was not going to let that happen to it's reputation. I had a Japan built Fit and now have a Mexican built Fit. The Mexican one is just as good as the Japanese one. If CZ has a culture of quality, the US plant will be run just as well and produce just as good a gun as in the Czech Republic. If it is a cost cutting exercise by a company that does not value quality it will be inferior. The only way to know is to wait and see what is produced. Speaking of which, when and what rifles or pistols is it expected to produce?
Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.

If CZ produces a gun in the US that isn't representative of the guns they make in their country its on them, not the US plant. Like the US plant is going to go rogue or something.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2019, 06:57 PM
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GMD1950, thanks for that info. Don't they make those pistols in Kansas City already? That's what I heard on another forum but can't remember which.
Nope, and the Dan Wesson plant only builds Dan Wessons.

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Originally Posted by 1dogdown View Post
K.C.is just an import facility employing like 56.The Arkansas plant will be the first plant outside Czech Rebublic.
Exactly

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  #23  
Old 10-15-2019, 08:53 PM
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Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.

If CZ produces a gun in the US that isn't representative of the guns they make in their country its on them, not the US plant. Like the US plant is going to go rogue or something.
Remember the great American business model.
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:26 PM
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CZ is a manufacturing company. Manufacturing is about process design and control. It doesn't much matter where something is made, so long as the product is designed to be manufactured in a certain way, the process is setup that way, and managed to keep everything within control limits.

You may have noticed that the manufacturing processes CZ is using on newer modes is vastly different than that used on older models. A prime example is the CZ 452. During the phase out, CZ went from manual to computer controlled machining processes - this is evident in the finish quality (i.e. lack of tool and grinding marks on receivers, transition to MIM, etc.). By doing this they have relieved the burden of skilled labor and instead rely on computer controlled processes. The benefit to the consumer is that CZ can setup shop anywhere they can hire CNC operators and produce the same quality of product. Setting up in the US has logistical and cost advantages.

I don't expect any CZ made in the US to differ from a contemporary CZ made in the Czech Rep. If you think they won't be the same as your favorite old CZ, you're right, but that's already the case - they already changed how they make them in the old land, too.

JMK

PS - maybe they'll bring the BREN 2 to domestic production since it can't be imported under 922(r).
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JMK View Post
CZ is a manufacturing company. Manufacturing is about process design and control. It doesn't much matter where something is made, so long as the product is designed to be manufactured in a certain way, the process is setup that way, and managed to keep everything within control limits.

You may have noticed that the manufacturing processes CZ is using on newer modes is vastly different than that used on older models. A prime example is the CZ 452. During the phase out, CZ went from manual to computer controlled machining processes - this is evident in the finish quality (i.e. lack of tool and grinding marks on receivers, transition to MIM, etc.). By doing this they have relieved the burden of skilled labor and instead rely on computer controlled processes. The benefit to the consumer is that CZ can setup shop anywhere they can hire CNC operators and produce the same quality of product. Setting up in the US has logistical and cost advantages.

I don't expect any CZ made in the US to differ from a contemporary CZ made in the Czech Rep. If you think they won't be the same as your favorite old CZ, you're right, but that's already the case - they already changed how they make them in the old land, too.

JMK

PS - maybe they'll bring the BREN 2 to domestic production since it can't be imported under 922(r).
Amen brother new machines mean tighter more accurate machining. My apologies I did not know they were only making pistols here but I think it won't be long before they will expand to other styles of firearms and that will be sweet for all of us here.

Signalman
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1dogdown View Post
The Arkansas plant will be the first plant outside Czech Rebublic.
There's a plant in Brazil.

Date of CZ's report. Sept 04, 2013
Quote:
The plant is expected to be able to manufacture 1,000 pistols as soon as November 2013.
https://shop.cz-usa.com/company/news...lant-in-brazil
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  #27  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JMK View Post
CZ is a manufacturing company. Manufacturing is about process design and control. It doesn't much matter where something is made, so long as the product is designed to be manufactured in a certain way, the process is setup that way, and managed to keep everything within control limits.

You may have noticed that the manufacturing processes CZ is using on newer modes is vastly different than that used on older models. A prime example is the CZ 452. During the phase out, CZ went from manual to computer controlled machining processes - this is evident in the finish quality (i.e. lack of tool and grinding marks on receivers, transition to MIM, etc.). By doing this they have relieved the burden of skilled labor and instead rely on computer controlled processes. The benefit to the consumer is that CZ can setup shop anywhere they can hire CNC operators and produce the same quality of product. Setting up in the US has logistical and cost advantages.

I don't expect any CZ made in the US to differ from a contemporary CZ made in the Czech Rep. If you think they won't be the same as your favorite old CZ, you're right, but that's already the case - they already changed how they make them in the old land, too.

JMK

PS - maybe they'll bring the BREN 2 to domestic production since it can't be imported under 922(r).
You still need skilled operators, ones who can detect early signs of tool wear. Otherwise you can produce just as many out of spec parts as ever. That machine, lathe or machining center has been zeroed out with a new tool and has no idea if that cutting tool has worn down, been chipped, has chip weld or any other defect.
QC is still the key factor. I speak from many years of experience.
Yes, cnc machining has the potential of much greater volume and accuracy, not a guarantee.

Last edited by wkd; 10-16-2019 at 01:08 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wkd View Post
You still need skilled operators, ones who can detect early signs of tool wear. Otherwise you can produce just as many out of spec parts as ever. That machine, lathe or machining center has been zeroed out with a new tool and has no idea if that cutting tool has worn down, been chipped, has chip weld or any other defect.
QC is still the key factor. I speak from many years of experience.
Yes, cnc machining has the potential of much greater volume and accuracy, not a guarantee.
Agree on all counts. My reference to skilled operators was not meant to infer that CNC operators are not skilled or that the process is completely automated, because neither are true.

In my head that fell under the basic skill and qualification of a "CNC operator" and "the process is...managed to keep everything within control limits."

I wasn't going to write a dissertation on manufacturing from my phone...

Thanks for keeping me honest and filling in some of the details.

JMK
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  #29  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:56 AM
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Glock did it! Beretta did it, FN did it. I suspect CZ will do it too, This. Is good news. It means that there will be jobs in America. We have become competitive as manufacturers again. This is thanks to technology, a machine costs the same here as anyplace else, and that labor costs elsewhere have increased enough to make make the shipping cost prohibitive. Now if we can get the other barriers to entry down, we might have a chance.
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  #30  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:33 AM
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American Quality

I agree with Toomany22s. Fit and finish quality is set by the standards of the manufacturer. My CZ love affair ended with the discontinuation of the 452 line. I own two and both were of better quality and accuracy than my 455. I read extensively of the 457 and have of yet seen nothing that hints at that model being better than the 455 series. Lots of articles of rough feeling bolts etc. Americans can make any product the equivalent of any other country. Take close look at a Henry rifle. Excellent fit and finish.
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