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Old 10-14-2019, 09:17 PM
rnaylor2

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First day at the range with my Anschutz 64 MPR



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This is my first post but I have been lurking for about 6 months. I have been studying for my first Anschutz rifle.I have been competing against them since my days shooting 22 silhouette pistol competitions. And not doing very well.

I took the plunge and bought a 64 MPR and today was the first day at the range. I installed a Muller 8X32X44 scope. I started by seasoning the barrel with shooting 300 round of CCI Standard Velocity ammo through it and pulled a bore snake through the barrel after each 100 rounds.

I shot 5 fouling rounds of each type of ammo then shot for groups. I shot 8 five round groups of each ammo at 50 yards. I will list them in order of group size average from smallest to largest groups.

1. SK Rifle Match .302 center to center at about 17 cents a round
2. SK Pistol Match .315 12
3. Eley Tenex .339 31
4. Wolf Match Target .341 11.2
5. Eley Club .359 11.4
6.CCI Standard Velocity .369 4.2
7. Lapua Center-X .380 21.9 It didn't like this at all

I shot off a front rest and a rear bag. I have a Magneto Speed chronograph and I will test the top 4 to see if there is velocity correlation as well. The rifle now has 500 rounds through it and I don't know if it's settled in yet or not. I have not shot off a bench before and don't know if this is the correct process to be going through. Any comments are welcome as this is new to me. Thanks. Bob
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:55 PM
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cut a couple of pieces of 1"x1" rubber bicycle inner tube, stack them one on top of the other and put them as far forward in the barrel channel (under the barrel) as close to the muzzle as possible at the tip of the forend.

all my annies have improved like this. free floating is over rated if you aren't using a tuner.

also, different lots shoot better some days than others. so you may go shoot tomorrow and the stuff that shot good today might shoot bad, and the stuff that shot bad might shoot good. so you just have to test on the day.



50y



best ever



and this is testing ammo at 50y.

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Old 10-14-2019, 09:55 PM
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I admire your endurance, over 600 rounds would be tiring for me, and a very long day. Don't give up on the Center-X, it's typically one of the best choices in Anschutz rifles. Different lots can vary as much as different brands, so you should rest up and try it again with a different lot number.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:09 PM
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Well, I wouldn't mix brands of ammo without cleaning.

I would try and get 5 different lots of the same ammo and shoot a 25 bull target of your choice just looking at group size.
*If can't get at least 5 lots of the ammo with at least 5 bricks of back up, I won't even bother testing it.

I'd shoot the 1st bull with 5 rounds of the 1st lot, and then move to the second lot and shoot the second bull with it and so on until I'd shot the top row with 5 shots of each lot.
Then do the same again until I'd shot 25 bulls with 125 rounds of ammo.
That would give me 5 vertical rows of each lot of 5 bulls each.
That even outs the conditions, and any variance in my shooting technique/concentration.

With the reaming 25 rounds of each lot, you can rinse and repeat as a backup check.
Do not waste any rounds sighting in, just let the groups hit where they hit. You're looking fro group size and shape, not a score.

With any brand/version of ammo you can get a great lot or a poor lot, so the way you are doing this is meaningless.

*If you can't isolate the lot, what's the point.

You have a potentially great rifle, and proper lot testing is the only way you'll get the maximum scores from it.
(Along with set up, your techniques, wind reading, and practice)

Good luck.

Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 10-14-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:19 PM
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Clem-E
cut a couple of pieces of 1"x1" rubber bicycle inner tube, stack them one on top of the other and put them as far forward in the barrel channel (under the barrel) as close to the muzzle as possible at the tip of the forend.
all my annies have improved like this. free floating is over rated if you aren't using a tuner.


Kinda tough to do that on my rifle.


Just won my second Ranges year long USBR "Shooter or the Year" Match Class Division with a 242-5x average over 16 targets (3871/4000), all shot in the conditions of the day over the year.
We shoot off Bi-Pods, and any type of rear bag as shown below. No tuners are allowed.
Yes I remove the butt-hook and cheek piece for my matches.

Now my KIDD Supergrade and my 1416 Thumbhole both improved with a rubber patch at the tip area of the forearm.
So you just never know without trying.


I've used this bicycle tire patch kit for years. Gives you several 1x1 and a 2x1 precut patch along with the big one.
They have adhesive that keeps them put, but pulls off without leaving any residue even after years and high heat.
They are just the right thickness to support the barrel without forcing everything out of kilter.


Smooth

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 10-15-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoothtrigger View Post
Clem-E
cut a couple of pieces of 1"x1" rubber bicycle inner tube, stack them one on top of the other and put them as far forward in the barrel channel (under the barrel) as close to the muzzle as possible at the tip of the forend.
all my annies have improved like this. free floating is over rated if you aren't using a tuner.


Kinda tough to do that on my rifle.

Gonna need a pretty thick piece of rubber.....

How long is that barrel btw?
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:06 AM
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Smooth you could cut a chunk of cheese and put under that barrel. Lol

I love looking at that rifle, it's one of my favorites.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rnaylor2 View Post
I shot 5 fouling rounds of each type of ammo then shot for groups. I shot 8 five round groups of each ammo at 50 yards. I will list them in order of group size average from smallest to largest groups.

1. SK Rifle Match .302 center to center at about 17 cents a round
2. SK Pistol Match .315 12
3. Eley Tenex .339 31
4. Wolf Match Target .341 11.2
5. Eley Club .359 11.4
6.CCI Standard Velocity .369 4.2
7. Lapua Center-X .380 21.9 It didn't like this at all

I shot off a front rest and a rear bag. ... I have not shot off a bench before and don't know if this is the correct process to be going through. Any comments are welcome as this is new to me. Thanks. Bob

That's a very good start, with a lot of testing.

You say you are new to bench shooting so you may be unaware that there is an important caveat when it comes to testing. As others have noted, different lots of ammo may very well give you different results. Match ammo is made in batches called lots and lots can differ quite a bit. While most lots of a particular ammo are average and similar to one another, some are better and some are worse.

To illustrate, your results with Center X ("It didn't like this at all") may be peculiar to the particular lot of Center X you tried. The same is true of the results for any of the ammo tested . Typically, Center X shoots better than SK Rifle Match because it's made to a higher standard of quality. You can't tell the difference between a CX round and a SK RM round, but on average the difference will show down range on the target. At the same time a very good lot of SK RM will shoot better than a poor lot of CX, and at considerable difference in price.

Also worth noting, is that different bores can respond differently to different ammo. That is true for two rifles of the same manufacturer and model. This means that two MPRs may shoot the same lot of ammo a little differently.

What it boils down to is that ammo testing is not about finding the brand or variety of ammo your rifle "likes". Instead it is about finding the lot(s) of ammo your rifle shoots best. Many lots will shoot very similarly, but some can produce better results than others.

One final point. Often with rimfire the results obtained one day may not be equaled the next.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:56 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnaylor2 View Post
This is my first post but I have been lurking for about 6 months. I have been studying for my first Anschutz rifle.I have been competing against them since my days shooting 22 silhouette pistol competitions. And not doing very well.

I took the plunge and bought a 64 MPR and today was the first day at the range. I installed a Muller 8X32X44 scope. I started by seasoning the barrel with shooting 300 round of CCI Standard Velocity ammo through it and pulled a bore snake through the barrel after each 100 rounds.

I shot 5 fouling rounds of each type of ammo then shot for groups. I shot 8 five round groups of each ammo at 50 yards. I will list them in order of group size average from smallest to largest groups.

1. SK Rifle Match .302 center to center at about 17 cents a round
2. SK Pistol Match .315 12
3. Eley Tenex .339 31
4. Wolf Match Target .341 11.2
5. Eley Club .359 11.4
6.CCI Standard Velocity .369 4.2
7. Lapua Center-X .380 21.9 It didn't like this at all

I shot off a front rest and a rear bag. I have a Magneto Speed chronograph and I will test the top 4 to see if there is velocity correlation as well. The rifle now has 500 rounds through it and I don't know if it's settled in yet or not. I have not shot off a bench before and don't know if this is the correct process to be going through. Any comments are welcome as this is new to me. Thanks. Bob
Bob, Did you shoot the ammo as you have it listed 1-7? if so you need to clean between switching ammo? 45 shots from each ammo and cleaning only every 100 rds. will affect how each will shoot, you need to clean between testing different lots.
as noted from ammo #1 to ammo #7 the groups got bigger when you shot the CX you were already at a round count of 315
try shooting the opposite and shoot the CX first from a clean barrel, and a bore snake is useless IMO, you need a good rod and bore guide and brush the bore, especially the leade

Lee
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:34 AM
rnaylor2

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Great idea. On my way to pick up a tire repair kit for my range day Thursday.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:41 AM
rnaylor2

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No I did not shoot in this order. Using the ranking order numbers I shot in this order. 6-2-4-1-5-3-7. I pulled a bore snake once through the barrel between each 100 rounds. The Center-X was through a clean barrel.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:45 AM
rnaylor2

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Where do you find 5 different lots of the same ammo? Order from 5 different places? Can you go back and ask for the same lot numbers?
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:48 AM
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Clem-E

Barrel length according to Anschutz is 22 inches. (They must measure it from the tip of the bullet)
It's 23 inches from the breach to the muzzle.
And remember that this is a 1727F action and barrel. It has a Sport chamber.
Interesting considering how accurate it is.

maylor2

GoodshootingInc and Killougs can provide you with a box from many different lots of of any type of Lapua and Eley.
Your job is to call them, or note the info given in the internet to make sure that they have sufficient backup for you to pick up a large quantity if you find something you like.
I usually need to have at least a 1/2 case of each of the lots that I test available, preferably a case.

By the way, pulling a bore snake is not cleaning the rifle.
You need to get out all of the
crud, and each manufactures lube.

My testing methodology is to pick up 5 lots of the same ammo, say Center-X, and then shoot 5 bulls of 5 shots each of each lot.
So I use a USBR target, but you can use any 25 bull target.
I'll shoot 5 shots of lot #1 at the 1st bull. Then I'll move horizontally and shoot the second bull with lot#2, and so on until I've shot all five lots.
Then move down to the second row and repeat, then the third row and so on.
Once I'm finished I will have shot 125 rounds (1/2 box of each lot), and will have 5 vertical rows side by side to evaluate.
I will still then have enough ammo to repeat the whole test once more (after cleaning) to double check.
By shooting it this way, you will have minimized the effects of the wind by having each lot spaced out.
You also will have allowed for variations over the time of the test for your concentration and technique to somewhat equalize.

Important points:

#1: Must have a low wind day. This can be a real issue if you want to finish your testing in time to be able to still pick up some ammo.

#2: I may foul the barrel with some of the same ammo if I have any that's not in the test group. If I don't have that, I'll foul with some lower end ammo from the same company.
Eley Ten-X and Eley Match use Bees Wax for their lube, so I can't use their lower end options to foul with. With either of those I'll just start the testing without fouling.

#3: I never touch the scope during the testing. I'm looking at groups not score, so I don't really care where the rounds are hitting.

Smooth

https://goodshootinginc.com/rimfire-ammuntion/
https://www.killoughshootingsports.c...1018_011271058

Last edited by Smoothtrigger; 10-16-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:50 AM
rnaylor2

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Actually it was two sessions. Early morning for the 300 rounds of break in and an late afternoon session for the ammo test. I really appreciate all the feed back for a newbe.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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Those results on a first day out weren't bad at all.

This quote is from the Anschütz North America website:

"As many shooters know, lot testing is essential for developing the very best accuracy in a rimfire rifle. Even with top grade ammunition, there can be a significant difference in group size as much as 0.25" at 50 yards. Each rifle will show a distinct preference between lots of ammunition."


I've tried some top brands/types of 22lr and the particular lot numbers didn't yield acceptable accuracy in my particular rifle. That doesn't mean another lot of that brand/type will not perform significantly better. In my tests, I've seen as much a .100" C-T-C difference between lots of a particular brand/type.

You shouldn't use your smallest group or your largest group as a guide before buying a significant amount of that lot. Instead, use the average of a particular brand/lot shot over a reasonable period of time. The goal is consistency.

It takes some planning. If you wait too long, the lot could sell out. It's one of the caveats of precision rimfire shooting.
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