Do companies pay royalties to produce 10/22 Compatible Receivers and Magazines? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 10-09-2019, 01:19 AM
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Do companies pay royalties to produce 10/22 Compatible Receivers and Magazines?



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Obviously one could not exactly clone Ruger's design without getting into legal problems. But given the growing number of 10/22 receivers and magazines -- and rifles for that matter, I'm curious if such companies (e.g. Brownells BRN-22, Volquartsen, Magnum Research, Tactical Innovations, Tactical Solutions, Champion Range & Target, etc.) actually pay any royalties to Ruger for what they produce based on the 10/22?
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:09 AM
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Ruger 10/22 was designed in 1964, patents only last 20 years from date of filing. After that patent expires it is essentially open public data anyone can use, including competitors ,imitators and innovators. IIRC their patent on the rotary magazine for it expired sometime in the early 80's and I'd assume the rifle patent would also have expired in the same time frame.

Trademark and copy-rite are different matters completely, with much longer time periods for rights of names.

Plenty of 10/22 based designs out there, but they better not say ruger or have ruger symbology on them, otherwise there will be legal consequences if Ruger pushes it. But as far as the basic design goes, that horse left the barn a long time ago.

Same thing with the M16 and AR-15 family of weapons. Patents expired long ago and plenty of manufacturers make their version of it. For government contracts for a weapon system they have to manufacture and follow the TDP tech data package and that is exclusive and involves licensing rights. But that is irrelevant for civilian rifles.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:29 AM
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Ruger has shown in the past that they will vigorously defend their patents and designs.

They have also shown that they will infringe on others designs such as their LCP which is very similar to the Kel-Tec.

There are so many other 10/22 compatible receivers and parts that the only thing I use when building a custom version is the 10 shot rotary magazine.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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Ruger has shown in the past that they will vigorously defend their patents and designs.

They have also shown that they will infringe on others designs such as their LCP which is very similar to the Kel-Tec.

There are so many other 10/22 compatible receivers and parts that the only thing I use when building a custom version is the 10 shot rotary magazine.
Mannlicher was the original? creator of the rotary magazine, I believe; although it was an internal affair.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:03 PM
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Mannlicher was the original? creator of the rotary magazine, I believe; although it was an internal affair.
Yes, and Savage used a rotary (internal) magazine for their early model 99 rifles so the concept didn't originate with Ruger.

Several newer .22 rimfire rifles now have magazines compatible with the 10/22 magazine.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfshoon View Post
Ruger 10/22 was designed in 1964, patents only last 20 years from date of filing. After that patent expires it is essentially open public data anyone can use, including competitors ,imitators and innovators. IIRC their patent on the rotary magazine for it expired sometime in the early 80's and I'd assume the rifle patent would also have expired in the same time frame.

Trademark and copy-rite are different matters completely, with much longer time periods for rights of names.

Plenty of 10/22 based designs out there, but they better not say ruger or have ruger symbology on them, otherwise there will be legal consequences if Ruger pushes it. But as far as the basic design goes, that horse left the barn a long time ago.

Same thing with the M16 and AR-15 family of weapons. Patents expired long ago and plenty of manufacturers make their version of it. For government contracts for a weapon system they have to manufacture and follow the TDP tech data package and that is exclusive and involves licensing rights. But that is irrelevant for civilian rifles.
Thank you for your very informative response!
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by M2HB View Post
Ruger has shown in the past that they will vigorously defend their patents and designs.

They have also shown that they will infringe on others designs such as their LCP which is very similar to the Kel-Tec.

There are so many other 10/22 compatible receivers and parts that the only thing I use when building a custom version is the 10 shot rotary magazine.
Ironic given that Ruger is the biggest copier of them all!
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:37 PM
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Yes, it even gets funny (or sad)... Ruger sued a tiny mfg called AMT in the late 1990"s to extinction...
Then in late 2000's Ruger came out with new cast 10/22 bolt which was a exact copy of the AMT bolt...
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Last edited by CPC; 10-10-2019 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:26 PM
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Yes, it even gets funny (or sad)... Ruger sued a tiny mfg called AMT in the late 1990"s to extinction...
Then in late 2000's Ruger came out with new cast 10/22 bolt which was a exact copy of the AMT bolt...
When you have a valid patent you have to defend it against violators or you lose its exclusive use and it becomes public domain. AMT may have been small but if Ruger had ignored them the next violator may not have been that small or insignificant.

By the late 2000's the AMT patent (if any) had certainly expired and Ruger was free to duplicate it.

Ruger's patents on most of the features of the 10/22 have all expired and lots of makers are producing basically identical components or even complete rifles.

What hasn't expired is the Ruger trademark on the 10/22 name.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:29 PM
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Yes, and Savage used a rotary (internal) magazine for their early model 99 rifles so the concept didn't originate with Ruger.

Several newer .22 rimfire rifles now have magazines compatible with the 10/22 magazine.
The Savage 99 was Bill Rugerís inspiration for the 10/22 mag.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:33 PM
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Yes... Even I have got a Rugers lawyer letter... It noted Ruger trade marks I needed to add to my website... So I add their trademark notes and never heard from them again...
Ruger would have registered copyrights on words like Ruger, 10/22, 77/22, Mini-14 ect....
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Last edited by CPC; 10-10-2019 at 11:27 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by chuckbiscuits View Post
The Savage 99 was Bill Rugerís inspiration for the 10/22 mag.
Interesting, I did not know that. I know Ruger has copied a lot of other things. From the Mini-14 (M-14/M-1 Garand) to the SR1911 to Savages Accutrigger.
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Old 10-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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Didn't you just post the same question over on the Enos forum?

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...and-magazines/

Nolan
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