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  #1  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:14 PM
bowwild

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Anschutz vs CZ 457 Youth Scout -Gosh!



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This is not a bashing post. I love both the rifles I shot today and write about below.

I've been posting here all year with questions about this or that. You folks have helped this 65-year old a lot. I'm not new to shooting but all my shooting has been sighting-in and hunting. No plinking or bench stuff.

So, today I brought out my most expensive and my least expensive rigs to try out some ammo. You'll see from my pictures that I am about as far from a sophisticated target shooter as you can get. I made my target frame from two arrows in the ground at 50 yards (paced). The target is 25' air rifle paper.

My range is my backyard. I'm shooting from my deck which is about 12 feet from the deck floor to the ground. I'm shooting downhill into my yard. I am proud of the way I figured out how to shoot from the deck. I just spent much of the summer resurfacing and re-railing the deck. I wanted to put a gate to open and shoot through. But my wife, didn't want a "gate to no where". So, I drilled a couple of holes, placed some drop in bolts, and can now remove and reinstall ballistars to create a shoot-through window!

I shot 5 rounds each (after some sighting in) from my newest Anschutz 1712 with its just painted McMillan FWT sporter stock. The ammo was; CCI Subsonic, Eley Subsonic (green rabbit box), and the first RWS I've ever owned, also subsonic.

I shot the Anschutz first. The Anschutz is also sporting the last super expensive scope I'll ever buy; a FFP March 1-8. Love it but I have no business paying that much for glass. The Anschutz bulls are the orange dots running diagonal from top left to bottom right; CCI, Eley, RWS. It is pretty obvious to me that today (a bit windy and cool enough for goose down jacket) I shot the RWS better. I measured groups with a digital gauge, center to center of furthest holes.

Then just for kicks I shot nearly the same protocol with the least expensive rifle I own. It is a new CZ 457 Scout. I bought it thinking the grandchildren might find this a nice rifle and it is cheap -- about $320 at Buds. It is sporting an "experiment-for-me", very inexpensive Monstrum 2-7 scope that cost about $89 on Amazon. The CZ bulls are the black in the lower left corner and the upper right corner. I shot the CCI SS and the RWS SS. I didn't shoot the Eley because ... my heartbeat was distracting me in the scope!

I realize this was a quick and barely controlled look-see. But I can say this, that little CZ Scout will shoot! I have about 90% less in that CZ/Monstrum set-up than the Anschutz/March rig. I'm not picking on Anschutz. I love mine and I think it can do better than I can. I'm probably going to buy 2-3 more of the CZs for the grand kids.

The CZ cycled perfectly and didn't mind the magazine fully stocked with 5 shells. The Anschutz didn't much like the first round in a full 5-round magazine. It was difficult to close the bolt on the 1st round. So I started loading it with 4 rounds and hand- loading the 5th.

Oh, the Monstrum glass is nothing to write home about. It was 7X compared to 8x on the March. I never could get the Monstrum focused as clearly as the March. I'll keep it but I probably wouldn't buy another one.

I also admit, my technique is pretty crude. I changed position on every shot as the rifle kept slipping of the rear bag. I think I got a little better in the middle and worse at the end. I think the RWS with the CZ (1" group at 50) is an inaccurate (pun intended) test because I was losing focus.

I have several other rifles to shoot that I haven't yet, including a Tikka 1x, CZ
455 FS, Weatherby/Anschutz (64 action), and some others.

I think I need a proper shooting bench with a cut-out to get closer to the rifle. I think I need a better way to brace the rifle. I need my wife to run down to the target and confirm my excellence (or not)!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Anschutz and CZ 457.jpg (425.9 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg 3 Kinds of SS Ammo.jpg (160.3 KB, 434 views)
File Type: jpg Shoot Through Ballistars.jpg (462.8 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg Target Stand.jpg (459.0 KB, 434 views)
File Type: jpg Target with Data.jpg (405.1 KB, 57 views)

Last edited by bowwild; 10-07-2019 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Clarify posting motive
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:33 PM
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Other than needing more scope power, the results do not surprise me. I've owned 452 Scouts and they all shot well. Enjoy it and all your rifles.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:26 AM
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This reply is intended to be helpful to you and please don't take it as anything but that. Your 1712 should shoot much better than it did. It should shoot .4-.3 with regularity with several quality brands of ammo and you should get some sub .3 groups occasionally. Your limited scope power is most likely a factor. What kind of bench are you shooting from and what type of bags/rest are you using? You should also consider trying some Lapua Midas Plus and Eley red box or black box.

My limited experience with CZ Rimfires is that they typically shoot well, but not as well as a 54 Anschutz.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:43 AM
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I'm sure my set-up and my technique are the weak links in this chain.

My table is just that, a table. I can't get behind the gun very comfortably. My front bag was too high and my back bag too low. I had to move the Anschutz more between shots than the CZ to work the bolt. You can see my front and rear bags in this photo.

And yep at 7 and 8 power the crosshairs would move off the POA on every heartbeat. I tried to time the trigger to go off when the crosshairs returned to the POA.

I realize, other than a hole in my mitt and the sun in my eyes, I'm listing every excuse in the book. Actually, I'm surprised I achieved the groups I did with either rifle.

The thing that impressed me was the little youth scout shooting so well with easy and cheap to buy CCI SS. I'm tickled I won't be putting the grandkids at a disadvantage with the Scout.

I am going to put more scope on this 1712. I have one of the older Leupold VXII 4x12 AO.
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File Type: jpg Anschutz and CZ 457.jpg (425.9 KB, 16 views)
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:51 AM
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I have had several 54 (and 64) Anschutz rifles that were outshot by CZ 452s. And several that were not. So has my shooting group. I'll remember forever the day I shot a good target with a huge Anschutz 1911 and Doug, with a smile, handed me a six pound CZ that did as well or better.

Accuracy is dispersed in a bell curve, like everything else in the world, and the bell curves overlap. My experience is that the Anschutz bell curve is not that much different from the CZ bell curve. Yes I would give the nod to Anschutz but there is a reason CZs are a bargain. Plus CZs eject flawlessly and the mags drop free with one finger. Imagine that!

Of course this last statement regarding the location of the bell curve is subjective (and should not be relied upon) as no one has the means to plot both curves as so many samples would be required and the testing protocol would require the same shooter, the same windless range, and many other things held constant. Particularly difficult would be holding ammo constant as different rifles like different ammo...Tom
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:03 AM
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The wobbly bench and bag set up and the low power scopes pretty much equalized the playing field here. Get a solid bench and a rest and the Annie will shoot a lot better, so will the cz, but you need more magnification, you spent your money on a hunting scope or long distance steel ringing scope. your target is a 1 inch circle at 50 yards not a 600 lb elk at 300 to 600 yards.Sell it and buy a target scope, Mueller 8x32 work fine, and then there is better. And your wife won’t have to run down to the target.
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:48 AM
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Ha! Good advice.

I started to list the March for all these reasons and replace it with 2-3 others. However, a squirrel looks Sooooo good in that circular crosshair and FFP.
So, I think I'm going to keep the March and use it for squirrel hunting, sometimes. I may put it back on the Steyr air rifle which is why I bought it in the first place. I fear I'd take a terrible beating on it anyway.

I just put the Leupold 4x12 AO on this McMillan stocked 1712. I also like that swapping these scopes out cut 1/2 pound off the weight of the 1712 rig! I suppose something with a bit more power is in my future though. Thanks for the recommendation.

Who knows, I don't have the drive to see how tiny a group I can get .... yet. If I keep reading on here though, who knows? I really do want all shots touching most of the time though, at 50 and under.

My next move is to improve the shooting bench set up. I see some nice plans on the net and I have a bunch of scrap, treated lumber left-over the from the deck re-do.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:34 AM
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This bench I threw together might be a little much for your deck, but you get the idea.


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Old 10-08-2019, 11:43 AM
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Sweet!

Now that's a heavy duty set-up.

Thanks for sharing!
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:13 PM
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This looks more like a fighting position than a shooting bench. Nice job
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:03 PM
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Get a good shotgun vest to take the heartbeat out of the equation, then work on your breathing and trigger control. Also if you want to shoot .3 groups, your platform and bags have to be rock solid.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:32 AM
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March scopes keep their value well in the used market. I would sell it, buy a pair of Leupold 36x scopes and more ammo with the sale price and br good to go.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:46 AM
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Thanks for this info.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:37 AM
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I agree the Anschutz should shoot better than that, and you still have a lot of testing to do (that's the fun part, right?), but some of us have horror stories of our Anschutz rifles that did not shoot that well (not going to open the ejection can of worms again ); mine happened to also be a 1712. So, it happens, but I would say the jury is still out. FWIW, the two Scouts I've owned were also very accurate and were perfect for the kids and grand kids because they still enjoyed shooting them even as they grew.

As I get older, my need for magnification has increased proportionally, but I detest the Mt. Palomar-class scopes mounted on nice sporters. My quest has been a scope with about 5x on the low end and 18x on the high end but the size and weight of the average 3-9x40 scope. I've managed to get close with a Leupold VX3i 4.5-14X40 boosted to 6.5-19x. It's attractive and still lightweight. Still, I think 8x at 50 yards would have been enough for shooting tight groups, if the reticle and bullseye are compatible. The best set up for me has been a dot reticle with an orange or white dot on the target that appears just large enough, at the highest magnification, to show a thin ring around the reticle dot. This allows very accurate centering of the dot in the dot and has been the best recipe for me. I've always done better with circles in circles than with quartering a circle with cross hairs...maybe it's just me.

Nice work around on your balcony, BTW.

Good luck

TBR
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thauglor View Post
March scopes keep their value well in the used market.
Now that there's no U.S. distributor and customers will likely have to send their scope overseas to get support... I wouldn't call it a smart buy. Their value on the used market just got effectively cut in half.
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