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  #16  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:03 AM
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In a standard bolt face short action shooting high BC heavy for caliber bullets and still having the ability to use it as a repeater, instead of a single shot, a 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor will suit you very well and either would be an excellent choice.

As for the Creedmoor being "finicky" as your gunsmith put it, with all due respect to your gunsmith, I'd be looking for a different one because there is nothing finicky about loading for a 6.5 Creedmoor. In fact, they are one of the easiest cartridges to load for that you'll find. If they were finicky to load for you wouldn't see so much factory ammo shooting really well in these 6.5CM.

And for what it's worth, I could care less what name is on the headstamp, this isn't a Creedmoor thing. Yes, I'm well aware the CM has been hyped as the cartridge that can nearly walk on water and I too roll my eyes at some of the things that are said about the all mighty Creedmoor. BUT, when you narrow the parameters to certain specifics, like using a short action and using it as a repeater with high BC heavy for caliber bullets, the Creedmoor fits the bill better than just about all others.
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  #17  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:22 AM
Jeff H
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Now that I've read the other posts, I'd like to toss out one more idea for consideration.

I don't know what everyone considers "long range," but to me, it depends on the platform and cartridge. I get it that the longer the range, the greater the challenge, and that we tend to just keep reaching farther for more challenge. It's almost an addiction, but not in a self-destructive sense.

I've shot regularly to 300 yards with iron sights on rickety rifles in the past. Three hundred yards doesn't seem to be considered long range these days, but when you're doing it with iron sights, it's a long way out there. The upshot is that the challenge is there without having to walk half a mile to check targets - if you're lucky enough to find such a stretch of clear, safe land to shoot that far.

I personally have absolutely no love for heavy, bulky rifles, no matter how far or how well they shoot. Just not my thing. My preference is for shorter, lighter, sleeker and more portable and maneuverable rifles - which are much more challenging to shoot well than heavy rifles with flat fore ends and heavy barrels.

I'm not suggesting that "my dog's better than your dog," rather "your dog may be stronger, but my dog's faster" type of thing - a challenge swap, so to speak. I tend to make things hard on myself in terms of shooting well at a given distance by using a rifle which is more difficult to do that with. Not on purpose, mind you. It just works out that way given my personal preferences.

While choosing a rifle which will serve multiple purposes, and hunting is on the list, a nice, light sporter with a slender barrel and skinny foreend would be ideal to tote about the woods and hills for one quick shot at game now and then, but it's a real challenge to shoot off the bench, as one would a target-rifle.

The challenge of shooting longer distances is made up for in the challenge of shooting a rifle off the bench, at less distance, which isn't as easy to shoot that way. I've used five-pound rifles that are the berries for snap-shooting at short distances which are intrinsically accurate enough to shot longer distances off a bench, but pose greater challenges to me to realize the rifle's own potential. A challenge is a challenge.

One rifle I've owned which probably "split the difference" most perfectly for me was a CZ 527 Varmint in 223 with the walnut American stock. Probably not what you're looking for, but the slender stock with the heavIER barrel was pretty amazing carrying afield, for closer quick off-hand shots, field positions - and even off a bench if you compensate for the thin fore end. I'm not sure how one would duplicate that in a larger cartridge, but that rifle covered a lot of bases in terms of being a versatile rifle without a dozen hobbling compromises unless you had one in 6.5 Grendel or a similar wildcat.

OK, now you have ME thinking about buying another rifle, so I better go do something else.
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  #18  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:37 AM
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OK, now you have ME thinking about buying another rifle, so I better go do something else.
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  #19  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:39 AM
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.......And for what it's worth, I could care less what name is on the headstamp, this isn't a Creedmoor thing............
What I hate about the Creedmoore is the HYPE.

What I love about the Creedmoor is the..... HYPE.

As repulsive as some of the advertising blather can be (not just for the CM either), that is what finally gave the .264" caliber the shot in the arm it needed to gain an appropriate level of popularity in the US. It's a marvelous and well-balanced diameter which was overlooked for a long time.

As for "high BC for caliber," high sectional density, etc., you can get that in any caliber, but as you go up in caliber, you go way up in bullet weight/recoil, cost of material,.... The 6.5s - any of them - are something of a "sweet spot."

I like a lot of calibers myself, as most people. Most probably have a favorite too. I really appreciate the nostalgia we attach to the 7x57 (marvelous round) and I have personal sentimental attachment to the 257 Roberts (another marvelous round) but if I were being pragmatic and perfectly honest with myself, the 6.5 covers more bases better for me.
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  #20  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:51 AM
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I would also mention Bergara which is less well known but is built to the same quality level and renown for their barrels. Your problem may become the hunting and long range shooting requirement for one rifle. I shoot long range with heavy barrel sporter stocked rifles, but you would not want to have to lug one around for miles on your shoulder.
Bergara has a beautiful hunting/target in the Ridge model. Classic style stock, barrel has a heavier than sporter, but not bull barrel contour. And it is threaded at the muzzle for your brake or suppressor. The action is what the Remington 700 always wanted to be.
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  #21  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:00 PM
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As stated earlier by another contributor, the Mauser 98 style action is the best overall. Most folks donít care about controlled round feed. It isnít necessary for non dangerous game animals, but it is nice. The new style Winchester 70 has it and if I were choosing, I would look for one made in America at their FN factory, in whatever caliber trips your trigger. There are other good options with it.

The Savage is probably the best value, but there are several good rifles at a higher price point.

Choices, choices, choices.

Iím glad I donít have to make the choice. Too many options.
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  #22  
Old 09-06-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff H View Post
As for "high BC for caliber," high sectional density, etc., you can get that in any caliber, but as you go up in caliber, you go way up in bullet weight/recoil, cost of material,.... The 6.5s - any of them - are something of a "sweet spot."
...the 6.5 covers more bases better for me.
Two years ago I didn't own any CF rifles and decided to build an AR for Texas hog hunting. Research pointed me to the 6.5 Grendel; I built it, love it and learned about the amazing 6.5 bullets and ballistics. Truly a magical diameter.

Couple months later got a great deal on a fantastic (economy) rifle: the Rem 783 Walnut in 6.5 Creedmoor. $350 with beautiful checkered walnut stock, unfortunately no longer listed on Rem website.
Decided to add a rifle with 24" barrel for longer range targets and hogs; found Ruger M77 Hawkeye FTW online (on sale) but it was chambered in 260 Rem. Jumped on it, wonderful rifle and cartridge.

The selection of .264" bullets is fantastic and probably anything anyone could want. Good for varmints up to medium game at amazing ranges (much farther than I would shoot at game). Recoil is mild even with 140g+ bullets.
All 3 cartridges are accurate and easy to load and it seems that all new bolt rifles are offered in at least one 6.5mm cartridge.

This video highlights the 6.5 mm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6APMqMkikk

Last edited by Randy99CL; 09-06-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-06-2019, 01:29 PM
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.........The selection of .264" bullets is fantastic and probably anything anyone could want..............
Well, almost.

I really miss the 160 grain Hornady RNs and Sierra SMPs for the 6.5x55.

Did I ever really NEED that much more mass and sectional density? Well, no, but they were so danged COOL! They looked like you were loading scoring pencils from a bowling alley,.... but I supposed they don't even use those anymore either.

OK, they were like launching miniature fence posts!
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2019, 02:47 PM
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6.5x55 & 160 gr. bullets...

Norma made a 6.5x55 with a 156 gr. round nose and you could get the Barnes Original in 160 gr. And of course the lighter bullets. Good enough to hunt any thing on the planet. Of course many cartridges can make that claim to fame. In case you want to travel in the world, some counties forbid any current military cartridges, so you might want to stay away from the .308 but the old .30-06 is not used anymore and can be found all over the world in a wide range of weights. And since we own nothing forever, you might also consider resale down the road, even if by your heirs. A common caliber may have more appeal than an odd ball.
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:09 PM
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Now available in hunting bullets~ https://www.range365.com/224-valkyrie/
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:29 PM
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If you want to shoot LR then get something that shoots bullets in .264, .284 or .308.
If by chance you consider 1000 yards to be long range, be aware that those cartridges are consistently losing to 6BR* and 6 Dasher in 1000y competition.

From a consumable point of view (your shoulder and your wallet buying bullets and powder), shooting too much gun is something you pay for over and over.

But they do require more wind adjustment and will not win on days when the winds are strong and shifty.

David
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2019, 04:25 PM
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Wow there is a lot of good discussion going on here.

I like the idea of a 6mmBR, as well as those that mentioned 6.5mm / CM and heavy for caliber.

I agree that for around $2k I can have one built depending on how much you drop into an action and trigger (i.e. rem 700 trued tikka or Howa vs a curtis, Kelby, haverkamp, etc..)
I would like a straight barrel around the 0.65" range like the cz 527 varmint contour.

Has anyone purchased a cz 557? I'm wondering how the action might be to build off of barring the gun does not shoot lights out. I have been very pleased with all 3 of the Cz's I currently own.

The 6.5 Grendel does not fit the heavy for caliber long range / hunting applications but I am sure it is a very worthy caliber and would meet 95% of what I am going to do anyways. I'm occasionally finding HOWA 1500's in the low $300's which are very tempting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff H View Post
Now that I've read the other posts, I'd like to toss out one more idea for consideration.

One rifle I've owned which probably "split the difference" most perfectly for me was a CZ 527 Varmint in 223 with the walnut American stock. Probably not what you're looking for, but the slender stock with the heavIER barrel was pretty amazing carrying afield, for closer quick off-hand shots, field positions - and even off a bench if you compensate for the thin fore end. I'm not sure how one would duplicate that in a larger cartridge, but that rifle covered a lot of bases in terms of being a versatile rifle without a dozen hobbling compromises unless you had one in 6.5 Grendel or a similar wildcat.

OK, now you have ME thinking about buying another rifle, so I better go do something else.
As mentioned above I too own a 527 in the Euro Varmint, that is probably out of the box the most accurate rifle I own (1/2 MOA at 100 and 200 means you are shooting poorly) (69gr, BR4, H4895 24.7gr, Lapua Brass, as close or into the lands as possible).

I do reload so I'm prepared to buy into any caliber I purchase. If I hunt it will be mostly whitetail and possibly elk, however I'm working up some 180gr 30-06 loads for a Tikka now.

Those that have builds on bolt gun (repeater w/ box mag) actions let me know your thoughts.

Keep the ideas coming and thank you for all of the suggestions thus far. There might be several of us "needing" new guns by the time this is over.
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2019, 04:32 PM
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If by chance you consider 1000 yards to be long range, be aware that those cartridges are consistently losing to 6BR* and 6 Dasher in 1000y competition.
Though this may be true, it's not necessarily because the 6BR or any of its improved versions are more accurate cartridges than another, but rather it works very well under the parameters of which 1000yd comp is shot.

A large part of why they have gone to .243/6mm bore size has to do with the availability of lighter, but still very high BC bullet selection. With that type of shooting the shooters wait for what they believe to be optimal shooting conditions then try and shoot all of their rounds as fast as they can to take advantage of those conditions. The less a cartridge recoils, the less the gun moves, and the faster they can get all of their shots off while they believe the conditions to be the most favorable.
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2019, 04:42 PM
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Though this may be true, it's not necessarily because the 6BR or any of its improved versions are more accurate cartridges than another, but rather it works very well under the parameters of which 1000yd comp is shot.

A large part of why they have gone to .243/6mm bore size has to do with the availability of lighter, but still very high BC bullet selection. With that type of shooting the shooters wait for what they believe to be optimal shooting conditions then try and shoot all of their rounds as fast as they can to take advantage of those conditions. The less a cartridge recoils, the less the gun moves, and the faster they can get all of their shots off while they believe the conditions to be the most favorable.
In my limited experience shooting 1k, they are about the same speed when you try to run your shots in a fast string.

The 6's do have an inherent accuracy advantage otherwise every competitor would go for maximum ballistics.

So for long range out to 1000 yards, always consider 6mm cartridges.

David
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2019, 04:57 PM
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Had a 6.5CM built almost 2 years ago and am very pleased with how well it shoots out to 1000yds which is the longest available in my area, had a 6CM built about 9 months ago, its much flatter out to 1000 yds and thus just a bit easier to deal with. Both are superbly accurate as in sub MOA (closer to 3/4 MOA in no wind, which we seldom to never get), both are useful for Hunting as well so while new rounds are being developed constantly they're still quite nice. Doubt there are many here who are capable of extracting everything from any of the many really good LR rounds that abound.
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