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  #1  
Old 08-23-2019, 10:53 PM
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Question about .22 drift between 50 & 200



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So today I got to sight in my Anschutz 54 match rifle at 200 yards for an upcoming fun match that shoots steel silhouettes offhand at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards and then 10 shoots off a bench at 200 yards.

I used the ballistic calculator from Burris to get some idea of how many clicks I needed between 50 yards and 200 yards. After I input all the variables and the type of ammo I was using (SK Match) it kicked out my adjustments and it was SPOT on at 25, 50, 75, 100, and 200 yards. I could not believe how accurate it was.
https://ballistics.burrisoptics.com/dope-card#:1

The problem I had was left to right...I sighted in at 50 yards and then adjusted and shot at 100 yards. It on elevation wise, but it was about 3/4" to the right. And at 200 yards it was about 2" to the right. Keep in mind that there was no real wind and if there was any breeze at all then it was from about 5:00 so that should cause the bullet to go high LEFT.

Has anyone else noticed this between the different distances? I know this is no big deal but it reminded me of when I used to shoot 3-p outdoors on our range and if the sun was right and we would aim at our steel range targets, we could see in our scopes how the bullet would kind of corkscrew into the target.

I assume this is due to the twist of the rifling but does anyone know for sure and is there a proper term for this effect because I would like to study this a little further.

Thanks!
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:02 PM
jaia
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Read up on Magnus Effect.
Aerodynamics of a rotating object.
Some call it spin drift.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:30 AM
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I've been very precise about tracking my scopes up a really tall piece of cardboard and it runs perfectly up the line for distances well past 400 yards.

But, nearly every gun I have tends to slightly drift to the right starting at about 100 yards and steadily gains to the right out to 197 yards at my range. It's always consistent when I do my testing in the evenings with all the guns.

My range is very sheltered and protected from winds, has plenty of flags and gets dead calm right before dusk. I've even had small campfires at the log cabin off to the side of the range and the smoke lazily goes straight up.

Just as with our CF guns at 1000 yards I am believing there is a slight drift to the right at 200 yards with the rimfire although all my buddies think I'm crazy. Usually Mother Nature messes with us at the matches and this slight drift isn't noticed but I do believe it's there.

I haven't done it yet but I've thought about experimenting with one of the better guns and slightly canting the reticle to see if I can get a correction and next time I get that dead calm condition see how it does.

Topstrap
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:28 AM
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Keep in mind air tends to swirl a bit as it moves. If you are shooting over a canyon or bluff you may feel air going one way on your face and it may be moving the other way down range. It takes some doping shots to get windage right and it's not an exact science nor consistently repeatable in variable wind. Most ranges have flags to help with this.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:54 AM
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Take a close look at a Buffington sight on a 1884 Trapdoor Springfield. The slide adds left windage all the way out to 1400yds.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:41 AM
BillOH
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I had the same problem until Topstrap told me how to level my scope.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:25 AM
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IMHO, it seems to be a scope issue. Bullets move around the parabollic vertical axis, because the giroscopic effect, but this must cause random open groups, not a consistent desviation like you refer. Perhaps, you could test your scope, with a calbrated target, moving the turrets, at the distances you shoot. Very little imperfections in the screws that move the internal tube, can cause that it not move in two perfect perpendicular axes, particularly, at the limits of adjust. Or, more simply enough, like BillOH says, an incorrect level of the scope can has the blame.
Appologies for my poor english.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:50 AM
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I think that you need to get your scope level in the rifle.


Get your scope zeroed at 100 yards.

add 10 mins elevation and shoot another group.

that group should be 10 inches directly above the original group. If it is center to the right or left of the original group, you need to tilt the scope in the rings accordingly.

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Old 09-08-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topstrap44 View Post
I've been very precise about tracking my scopes up a really tall piece of cardboard and it runs perfectly up the line for distances well past 400 yards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crankythunder View Post
I think that you need to get your scope level in the rifle.


If not perfectly plumb adding elevation is also adding windage. How to test:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...64#post3423464
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:31 AM
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Great thread and great advice
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2019, 03:07 PM
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+ 1 on everything listed above. You need to remember 200 yds for a rimfire is equal to 1000yds for a centerfire. It takes very little wind to move it at those range's. The wind can be somewhere in the middle, and you can't feel it. Get some light ribbon and place them 25 yds. to 50 yds. apart. and see what the wind is doing.

Mark
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:02 PM
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I agree with jaia. To sort it out rotate the scope a little to see if the shift due to spin drift goes away. That would be very interesting. Perhaps that would be an adjustment for spin drift.

I thought someone would shoot a rifle at many distances to see if there were a horizontal adjustment needed in addition to a vertical adjustment. No one really talked about it. This makes this thread neat.

Are we saying this is spin drift and all rifles ought to have it or are twisted or canted scopes the problem and once corrected there is no windage adjustment?

When people shoot rimfire at 50 and 100 yards, do they routinely make windage adjustments or just elevation? We ought to know this.

At 1000 yards centerfire rifles have to adjust for earth rotation. Do rimfire at 200 yards need this? Do we need to know which direction we are shooting or is our ammunition not accurate enough at 200 yards for earth rotation to matter?

Obviously, someone knows all this already. The OP may have "ticks and fleas". It would be nice to know what peoples experience with spin drift is.

I have always taken what people said too literally so when they said they shot squirrels in the eye I wondered if they adjusted for windage as well as elevation or just shot them at the same distance. Now after a few years following RFC, I realize that not every squirrel is shot in the eye even by squirrel master hunters.
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2019, 06:48 PM
BillOH
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Hmmmm. I was talking to Topstrap the other day and he mentioned the right drift he was seeing. I have been shooting out to 350 yards and now I realize that my groups have been showing a right bias. I had been blaming it on wind even though my range is pretty well protected. I'm learning all the time.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1164837
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2019, 06:56 PM
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[QUOTE=redmike;11602429]I agree with jaia. To sort it out rotate the scope a little to see if the shift due to spin drift goes away. That would be very interesting. Perhaps that would be an adjustment for spin drift.

I thought someone would shoot a rifle at many distances to see if there were a horizontal adjustment needed in addition to a vertical adjustment. No one really talked about it. This makes this thread neat.

Are we saying this is spin drift and all rifles ought to have it or are twisted or canted scopes the problem and once corrected there is no windage adjustment?

When people shoot rimfire at 50 and 100 yards, do they routinely make windage adjustments or just elevation? We ought to know this.

At 1000 yards centerfire rifles have to adjust for earth rotation. Do rimfire at 200 yards need this? Do we need to know which direction we are shooting or is our ammunition not accurate enough at 200 yards for earth rotation to matter?

Obviously, someone knows all this already. The OP may have "ticks and fleas". It would be nice to know what peoples experience with spin drift is.

You do not want to can't your scope for drift that will cause more problems, Just click scope for correction. I adjust for windage and elevation for all distances. Spin Drift is more about time of flight than distance ( 1.5 to 2 second ). For Centerfire is starts around 1000yds. Rimfire would be round 200 yds.
Wind will work on drift more than anything. I don't worry about spin drift , just the wind.

Mark
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:56 PM
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I've shot 200 meter competition for 10 years and never saw a wind free day. Benchrest shooters know that a right hand wind will push the bullet left and up and a left hand will push the bullet right and down. In my experience, the shape of the rifling has an effect on how much vertical component of the wind there is. When the new ratchet and octagon rifling came out Bill Calfee called them minimally invasive. The vertical component of drift was much greater with my original Anschutz barrel than with my Shilen Octagon rifling barrel. The rifling in that barrel looks like 8 little speed bumps. "I believe" on those barrels, there is less of an edge for the wind to catch. The horizontal drift seems to be the same for both types of barrels
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