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  #31  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:45 PM
mwezell
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Sigh....smh!

It's a shame that we can't discuss these things like grown men. Clearly, you have an ax to grind. Well, I don't.

There are people out there that can listen to both sides of a logical discussion and form their own opinions and that's how we can make progress together. I tried to do my part.
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  #32  
Old 09-26-2019, 08:38 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by mwezell View Post
Sigh....smh!

It's a shame that we can't discuss these things like grown men. Clearly, you have an ax to grind. Well, I don't.

There are people out there that can listen to both sides of a logical discussion and form their own opinions and that's how we can make progress together. I tried to do my part.
What is there to discuss? you believing heavy tuners work better than lite?

what progress are you talking about? if you truly want to do your part and want to convince RFC members that a heavy tuner is better than a lite tuner that I and some other RFC members say from our experiences is not the case at least for us.

Than how about offering a few RFC members your tuner to try and see for themselves what you are talking about.
that is what I did I offered a few members here to use a lighten tuner for as long as they needed to convince themselves if it works or not.
if you are that confident about your tuner and your methods put it on the line for others to see for themselves, I did

What say RFC members how many want to try Mike's tuner and tuning methods?

come on Mike your chance to do your part in helping these guys out.

Lee
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  #33  
Old 09-26-2019, 10:12 PM
Shamokinbob

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I would like to try, one is an anshutz sporter target, other is a custom 10/22 with bartlein .920 barrel, either or I'll put a tuner on
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  #34  
Old 09-26-2019, 10:42 PM
thesandman
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Hey Brother Mike; I've been wanting to try one. I could replace my jnl. I will use your tuning methods. But all my competition is 100yds.
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  #35  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:10 AM
mwezell
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Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
What is there to discuss? you believing heavy tuners work better than lite?

what progress are you talking about? if you truly want to do your part and want to convince RFC members that a heavy tuner is better than a lite tuner that I and some other RFC members say from our experiences is not the case at least for us.

Than how about offering a few RFC members your tuner to try and see for themselves what you are talking about.
that is what I did I offered a few members here to use a lighten tuner for as long as they needed to convince themselves if it works or not.
if you are that confident about your tuner and your methods put it on the line for others to see for themselves, I did

What say RFC members how many want to try Mike's tuner and tuning methods?

come on Mike your chance to do your part in helping these guys out.

Lee
Lee,
I sell literally hundreds of tuners per year and I've donated dozens during early development stages and later, many more as prizes at registered matches...still do this. They have multiple world records and national championships under their belt. They are an unquestionably proven design and they have the records to support this! I also donate my flags and other services to registered matches, as well, trying to do my part as a vendor of nearly 20 years to support and give back to the shooting sports, specifically the BR community.

I first started using tuners in 2007. I almost immediately started buying, building and testing tuners in just about every configuration and weight that you can imagine and then some. After much testing, it was time to dig deeper into the hows and whys of tuners to connect the dots of what I had seen in use. So, I contracted with a gentleman by the Name of Sam Glover, a professor at the University of Cincinnati. His background in this field was incredible, being a mechanical engineer and former adviser at Los Alamos National Laboratory...oh and a shooter, too! He was a huge help and we learned a great deal doing vibration analysis testing. From there, I purchased equipment and worked with someone more local to do further analysis and learned a great deal more. We have gone beyond testing different weights to as far as different medias used to dampen with, fill rates, eccentricity, position of the tuner..yada, yada. So not only have I tested different weights, I could even test and see on an oscilloscope precisely where there was a fall off in performance with different aspects, including not only how light but also how heavy the tuner needed to be. Further, we were able to quantify the difference between play sand, glass beads and different matrixes of tungsten powders. I settled on using a tungsten powder matrix. It's by far the most expensive but I left no stone unturned in using what tests best. FWIW, the early tuners used a different matrix than what I now use and have used since 2015. I started making and selling my tuners in 2014 and they have been game changes to many shooters. There may be someone with more testing experience than I have on this subject but I'd guess that I'm in the top two or three and that I likely stay in contact pretty regularly with the other one or two. You're not on that list, sir.

You're the one with near nil experience and you're also the one with something to prove due to you claiming that you have found a better way than I and virtually every record holder, national champion and serious competitor in the BR community has found to work and to WIN with!

While I won't rule out donating to a shooter on this site, so far what I see is that the mods here continue to allow you to attempt to belittle and demean a vendor. I can't control that but I do control who I donate products to and I won't allow you to dictate my policy to me in this regard.

I tried, one last time, to have a grown up discussion with you here but that was a waste of my time, again. Whenever I make a post on here, you do this same stuff.
I looked but didn't see one...Does this site have an ignore button? It'd be nice to be able to share on here some of what I've found without being harassed by you.

Good day!--Mike Ezell

Last edited by mwezell; 09-27-2019 at 11:16 AM.
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  #36  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:29 PM
KyleAllen
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Hi-NV Shooter,

Unfortunately, the Equipment Lists for PSL and ARA Nationals do not list Tuner by brand or type (lite vs heavy).

Who in ARA is Winning with a lite tuner?
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  #37  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:44 PM
Turbosam
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No one at the national event level.
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:50 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwezell View Post
Lee,
I sell literally hundreds of tuners per year and I've donated dozens during early development stages and later, many more as prizes at registered matches...still do this. They have multiple world records and national championships under their belt. They are an unquestionably proven design and they have the records to support this! I also donate my flags and other services to registered matches, as well, trying to do my part as a vendor of nearly 20 years to support and give back to the shooting sports, specifically the BR community.

I first started using tuners in 2007. I almost immediately started buying, building and testing tuners in just about every configuration and weight that you can imagine and then some. After much testing, it was time to dig deeper into the hows and whys of tuners to connect the dots of what I had seen in use. So, I contracted with a gentleman by the Name of Sam Glover, a professor at the University of Cincinnati. His background in this field was incredible, being a mechanical engineer and former adviser at Los Alamos National Laboratory...oh and a shooter, too! He was a huge help and we learned a great deal doing vibration analysis testing. From there, I purchased equipment and worked with someone more local to do further analysis and learned a great deal more. We have gone beyond testing different weights to as far as different medias used to dampen with, fill rates, eccentricity, position of the tuner..yada, yada. So not only have I tested different weights, I could even test and see on an oscilloscope precisely where there was a fall off in performance with different aspects, including not only how light but also how heavy the tuner needed to be. Further, we were able to quantify the difference between play sand, glass beads and different matrixes of tungsten powders. I settled on using a tungsten powder matrix. It's by far the most expensive but I left no stone unturned in using what tests best. FWIW, the early tuners used a different matrix than what I now use and have used since 2015. I started making and selling my tuners in 2014 and they have been game changes to many shooters. There may be someone with more testing experience than I have on this subject but I'd guess that I'm in the top two or three and that I likely stay in contact pretty regularly with the other one or two. You're not on that list, sir.

You're the one with near nil experience and you're also the one with something to prove due to you claiming that you have found a better way than I and virtually every record holder, national champion and serious competitor in the BR community has found to work and to WIN with!

While I won't rule out donating to a shooter on this site, so far what I see is that the mods here continue to allow you to attempt to belittle and demean a vendor. I can't control that but I do control who I donate products to and I won't allow you to dictate my policy to me in this regard.

I tried, one last time, to have a grown up discussion with you here but that was a waste of my time, again. Whenever I make a post on here, you do this same stuff.
I looked but didn't see one...Does this site have an ignore button? It'd be nice to be able to share on here some of what I've found without being harassed by you.

Good day!--Mike Ezell
Hey Bud you started this BS by addressing me in your post
If you read all 3 pages I never once mentioned you or your tuner
So why mention me by name?

You don't agree with how what I tune with
Go post your own findings

Lee
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:50 PM
Turbosam
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Mike you keep saying all this stuff about records and not one top shooter in rimfire uses your tuners. Center fire does not count or translate in this type of shooting period. Many centerfire guys have tryed and failed at rimfire cause they dont correlate. You guys arent the first to try either heavy or lite tuners so it's not something new. I know of one person that bought a ezell tuner and it's been in his range box since he got it. So let's talk about rimfire records what we should all be doing is finding out what ivan Wells is doing cause hes breaking all rimfire records. Has 2300agg over 100+ targets that's unbelievable and it isnt being done with a ezell tuner or an lite tuner. Go look at the people winning are doing , they all do something different and that is facts.
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  #40  
Old 09-27-2019, 01:05 PM
mwezell
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Originally Posted by Turbosam View Post
Mike you keep saying all this stuff about records and not one top shooter in rimfire uses your tuners. Center fire does not count or translate in this type of shooting period. Many centerfire guys have tryed and failed at rimfire cause they dont correlate. You guys arent the first to try either heavy or lite tuners so it's not something new. I know of one person that bought a ezell tuner and it's been in his range box since he got it. So let's talk about rimfire records what we should all be doing is finding out what ivan Wells is doing cause hes breaking all rimfire records. Has 2300agg over 100+ targets that's unbelievable and it isnt being done with a ezell tuner or an lite tuner. Go look at the people winning are doing , they all do something different and that is facts.
I believe he's using an unusually heavy tuner.
There's no point trying to convince you that rf and cf do indeed correlate where tuners are concerned, as you've taken sides already. Tuners work by optimizing where the muzzle is when the bullet reaches the crown. This is true, be it rf or cf. There is no rf voodoo that makes them defy physics. I'll leave this thread at that. If someone wants to contact me directly and discuss it further, I'd be happy to do that with them.
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  #41  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:41 PM
Shamokinbob

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I guess no tuner for me to play with, sigh
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  #42  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:01 PM
Turbosam
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See that's where you assume to much mike. I have no side and could care less about heavy vs lite tuners. Just so you know even the great tony boyer had fits with rimfire why do you think he stopped shooting it so NO centerfire and rimfire are nothing alike. Ivan will tell you it's the total package and getting the gun tune is the easy part. I understand what lee and his fellow shooters are doing I truly do but can they get the same results with a normal Harrell tuner? Hell if I had the money I would try a shaved tuner just to see if I can squeeze the last little bit out of my gun or if it even makes a difference. Everyone is different and there are just as many ways to tune a gun who's right ?, and whos wrong? I could care less as long as my gun shoots up to expectations.
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  #43  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:29 PM
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once a tuner weight exceeds 5.5 to 6.0 ounces it is virtually impossible to tune any rifle regardless of barrel profile. best you can do is '' make a rifle shoot" I have been trying to explain that to you folks for quit some time. marty
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  #44  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:45 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbosam View Post
Mike you keep saying all this stuff about records and not one top shooter in rimfire uses your tuners. Center fire does not count or translate in this type of shooting period. Many centerfire guys have tryed and failed at rimfire cause they dont correlate. You guys arent the first to try either heavy or lite tuners so it's not something new. I know of one person that bought a ezell tuner and it's been in his range box since he got it. So let's talk about rimfire records what we should all be doing is finding out what ivan Wells is doing cause hes breaking all rimfire records. Has 2300agg over 100+ targets that's unbelievable and it isnt being done with a ezell tuner or an lite tuner. Go look at the people winning are doing , they all do something different and that is facts.
This past July at the CF World Benchrest Championships in Alberta Canada and I am talking best shooters from around the world. the 2-gun Title was won with a rifle using a 4-oz tuner. I met and spoke with this shooter as he is a member of the club I shoot at. when I ask about the tuner and what his thoughts were on it, he just smiled and said he guess it works, but he loads at the bench so he can taylor his loads as the condition changes. I should also mention he makes his own bullets, so he is at a level most CFBR shooters are not at, including Mike.
if you look at the equipment list there were no tuners made by Mike. I guess these shooters at the world class level know something he doesn't. like at their level they need every advantage which means loading for the conditions and not just relying on a tuner, if they even use one.

Lee
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  #45  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:47 PM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by earnest View Post
once a tuner weight exceeds 5.5 to 6.0 ounces it is virtually impossible to tune any rifle regardless of barrel profile. best you can do is '' make a rifle shoot" I have been trying to explain that to you folks for quit some time. marty
And Marty, I want to Thank you for no giving up on me. I understand and a few others do too now.

Thanks,
Lee
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