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  #46  
Old 08-06-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
Hopefully none of us need to put it to use.
Amen.
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  #47  
Old 08-06-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
I'm not a shotgun fan for HD but whatever one uses I too strongly suggest getting a laser added to your particular setup. In the middle of the night when the brain is sleep fogged, or whenever, its much easier to concentrate on the dot to the target by pushing s button no matter the carry position of your weapon. JMO and others.
I agree on the laser, and not just for middle-of-night/sleep-addled circumstances, but for for pretty much any HD circumstances. I find a green laser to be my favorite sighting device for this type scenario if a sighting device is used. I don't really use a sight on a shotgun, per se, but for a handgun, I like a laser, hands down, slam dunk, no contest, vs irons, night sights, etc.

Last edited by I6turbo; 08-06-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-06-2019, 06:43 PM
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I tried a 20 gauge Mossberg 590 Shockwave with a laser mounted on the receiver. After several practice sessions at the range I just never got use to it. I attribute that to too many years of cycling and aiming a pump shotgun while it's mounted to my shoulder. Decided to go with a Mossy 500 in 20 gauge with an 18" cylinder bore. Put on a Magpul stock and have the adjustments where it shoulders very naturally with the bead where it needs to be to have good accuracy. I have a .45ACP in an instant access container secured in the headboard of my bed that is my primary HD but added the Mossberg to the collection anyway.

As to the noise: I have a set of active ear muffs at every place I've stationed a HD/personal defense firearm. If I have time to slip them on, fine. If not, so be it. I practice putting these on for the same reason I do dry fire and live practice, so I'm as ready as I can be if the need arises. I also utilize a LEWS (Labrador Early Warning System) that will give notice the moment anyone approaches an entry way, giving me precious seconds to prepare my response. There was one time someone tried to break in during the night but they reconsidered once Buddy the dog let it be known the miscreant wasn't welcome. The best security is formed in layers and having man's best friend as part of the system is critical, at least in my way of thinking.
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  #49  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:13 PM
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.410 revolver is the best of both worlds loaded with 2-1/2" #6s
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  #50  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:27 PM
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I also utilize a LEWS (Labrador Early Warning System) that will give notice the moment anyone approaches an entry way, giving me precious seconds to prepare my response. There was one time someone tried to break in during the night but they reconsidered once Buddy the dog let it be known the miscreant wasn't welcome. The best security is formed in layers and having man's best friend as part of the system is critical, at least in my way of thinking.[/QUOTE]

I have two rat terriers outside and I can tell by their bark if it is a varmint or somebody. Priceless!
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  #51  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:59 PM
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My training was with a field pump gun from a variety of makers(Sheriff's budgets were tighter back then) mainly 870 Wingmasters, Mossberg 500s, Winchesters, Ithaca, even Stevens and High Standards---whatever the bean counters could get deal on with what was left of the training budget. These had short barrels----18 inches IIRC, and longer magazines holding two or three more shells, and simple gold beads. We were taught to point, never aim. These had I.C chokes and we were issued 00 Buck and also #9 bird shot(this for riot duty)
I never saw slugs but they were rumored to be in the inventory. The guns were kept slick as a hounds tooth with nothing to foul on when getting out of the cruiser so I find it amusing to see so much plastic glued screwed and tattooed on shotguns these days to make them look "tactical"
For years we had a "family" SxS used for everything, including home protection.
It served us well, too.
Everything was chambered for 12 gauge btw.
I don't have a pump gun (I gave mine to my nephew, to defend his young family) but I think they are a worthy defensive tool. I'd go with a used Wingmaster, put an extension on the magazine and an 18" barrel and call it good. If a 12 gauge is too intimidating for a person sensitive to recoil there is no shame in a 20 gauge. IIRC the LAPD used to issue 20 gauge Ithacas with 4 Buck.
Around here these days, Federal Flite Control is what the PD & SO use

Last edited by Hovannes; 08-07-2019 at 01:12 AM.
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  #52  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:15 AM
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Hmmm. Interesting to read, and also helpful, but.......the general consensus seems to be nothing smaller than 20g, and there's been no mention of the legalities of loads. (I'm speaking here of "less-than-lethal" first shot rounds for legal status protections.)

Octanejunkie opined a Taurus Judge, (or similar), for a HD weapon, and apparently they do sell, or Taurus would have dropped them from their line up by now. Any opinions on it, or does the bias against .410 apply?

Thanks.....Roger
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  #53  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:53 AM
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Sorry I have not read what has been said before but a Remington 870 Youth 20G with a 21" barrel is pretty handy for the wife and kids and me too.

Signalman
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  #54  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:51 AM
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I use a CZ

Its a Brno double barrel 12 shotgun. Two barrels, two trigger, two everything. Very well made. I've not cut the barrel down yet but that was the intent. Load it up with low recoil subsonic shells. Really not that loud. In house ranges very effective. Also the double barrels are very spooky to look at from the front side. A elastic bandolier carries spare rounds and you can reload very very quick. I have a Glock for a backup to it. Doubles are super reliable and underrated for home defense as long as you stick with double triggers and stay away from single triggers.
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  #55  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:54 AM
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Any cheap 20 ga pump. When you are startled and your eyes are full of sleepy's, just aim at the silhouette and shoot.
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  #56  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTS225 View Post
Octanejunkie opined a Taurus Judge, (or similar), for a HD weapon, and apparently they do sell, or Taurus would have dropped them from their line up by now. Any opinions on it, or does the bias against .410 apply?
My neighbor had one and carried it all the time. He kept it loaded with a mix of .410 shotshells and 45 Colt slugs. His rational was shotshells good for snakes and slugs for snakes with feet. He is a big man. Huge hands, strong upper body, and a lot of ballast around the middle.

He might still have it but he doesn't carry it anymore. Big and heavy to tote around but still a lot of recoil was the stated reason. He switched to a single-action revolver of some sort (Colt 1873 clone).

Takeaway is that it's a big, heavy gun with a ton of recoil to deal with. Pro is that it is a handgun so can be one-handed but you're lacking the attachment points for things like lights common to most HD-type pistols.
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Last edited by Sophia; 08-07-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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  #57  
Old 08-07-2019, 11:37 AM
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I have a Governor that I more or less inherited from a friend, if you live in or spend a lot of time around big poisonous snakes I can see it, carried it some at the Belhaven property but in general I preferred my S&W M69 .44 mag. with a shotshell followed by 4 240gr. HP's since Bears were common as well. Both the Judge and Governor are large heavy revolvers as mentioned. For around the house I prefer a High Cap Pistol with a Shotgun near by. Again, personal preferences.
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  #58  
Old 08-07-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rodent shooter View Post
You should ditch the idea that a shotgun would be good for home defense.
I'd wager you have never known anybody shot with either a pistol or a shotgun. Unfortunately, I know families that have had members killed by both, and other members injured by both. Simple fact is no pistol slug has the raw stopping power of a load of 6 or 8 shot. And your aim doesn't need to be as accurate to inflict major damage.

Quote:
... Law enforcement does not use lasers, kinda tells you something.
No, but every patrol car I know of has a shotgun in a front seat rack. Kinda tells me something also.

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... Hollywood has proliferated the deterrent of the racking of a pump gun but you only give away your advantage of surprise by doing so, and they then know what you brung to run also.
Hollywood definitely takes liberties with things like wheel guns firing 20+ rounds without a reload, but it's no trick that racking a pump gun takes the fight out of most people without ever needing to fire a shot. The key is to perform the rack only after you have the drop on them.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that you should remove any plug in a pump gun used for home defense. Feds require a plug to limit capacity to 3 total rounds for migratory bird hunting. I don't think they consider home invaders to be migratory birds.
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  #59  
Old 08-07-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octanejunkie View Post
.410 revolver is the best of both worlds loaded with 2-1/2" #6s
I would respectfully disagree with this. My brother has one of the 45LC/410 pistols and I've sat in deer camp and watched him numerous times shoot at camp robbers from 10-15 feet away with #6 shot and they always simply fly away. Just not enough shot in the pattern and enough power developed in that short barrel to do enough real damage.

This has been an interesting and civil discussion, unlike several forums I frequent where communication breaks down after just a few posts.

I have an aversion to trying to use a shotgun for home defense for a couple reasons. One, if you live in an older home the hallways are going to be narrow and confining- usually in the 2'6" -3'0" width, so swinging a shotgun to aim in a tight space or around a corner may not be an easy tactical transition IMO. Second, in the old home scenario the overpenetration scenario develops added urgency due to different building materials.

However, here is my take on this every time it comes up. It doesn't matter what you use if you aren't comfortable with the weapons' use developed from much practice. In a stressful situation nothing will replace familiarity and practice. Doesn't matter if you use a shotgun, pistol, AR15, or a 460 Weatherby, if you can't shoot it well, quickly, accurately, repeatedly, when you are half asleep and scared out of your wits, it isn't the weapon for you....

My choice is a .45 1911 style pistol every time for these reasons. Your choice shouldn't be dependent on what somebody on the internet says no matter how well meaning it was intended. It should be what you have found to work for you after many range sessions.. Just my 2 cents' worth...

Bob
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  #60  
Old 08-07-2019, 03:58 PM
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I don't have or want a HD firearm, I have a baseball bat next to my bed, but if I did I would consider the Judge because it's easier to wield in QC than even a sawed off, let alone a full length shotgun, and it's lethal at typical home defense range, less than 10 feet (shot placement required) but also won't penetrate the perimeter of the structure and kill someone 3 houses away (AR15) nor in the next room (12 gauge or .45).

The Judge however would NOT be my first choice as an EDC gun, but with any personal protection firearm you have to consider that if you become incapacitated your firearm may be used against you or used to kill others. This is the main reason I don't have a HD gun, unintended collateral damage being the second reason and being sued by your assailant or their family the third.

Thanks to Hollywood, however, everyone knows the sound implied threat of racking a shotgun - so that sound alone may prove a deterrent to all but the most focused intruder. An unloaded 12 gauge racks well and acts as a club/bat, and in the absence of ammo, can't be used against you with immediate lethality.

Nice civil discussion about a well-opinionated topic. Now let's get some anti-2A folk in here for a different perspective
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