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  #16  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:24 PM
jaia
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So, we agree, it's hunting ammunition.

Which means, shooting groups is not it's purpose.

Then it's intended use is a single shot fired at a single critter.

Stick with me now, here's where I get tricky.

If you really want to show how effective the 22wmr is, try this.
Obtain a nice big chunk of cardboard.
Using a marker, draw a 4 inch grid, 5 lines by 10 lines.
Then set it out at y'er favorite bragging distance.
Let's say 100 yards....now try and put one round through each of those grid intersects.
That will be 50 individual shots at 50 individual aim points.
Think of it as shooting 50 individual squirrels...in the eye....at 100 yards.
Any takers willing to post the results?

It is hunting ammo and here's the chance to show how effective it is.


I never ask anything I wouldn't do my self....

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...7&postcount=48

Last edited by jaia; 07-29-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:32 PM
fourbore
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At 100 yards, I would shoot a squirrel in center of mass. Hypothetical. A 100 yard 22mag typical game shot is groundhog not eye ball shots in squirrel. It is the difference between theory and practice.

Even a 0 moa, perfect lazer rifle, there are other factors in hunting that limit shots taken. One of my favorite, Hickock quotes "You cannot carry a bench with you"

Oh, yea, I need to admit. I have pasted a page full of 1" red aim points and shot at those. Yes, firing 1/2" group is not the same game as hitting those spots every time. At some point you have to forget the groups and focus on hitting what you are aiming at.

Last edited by fourbore; 07-29-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:34 PM
MacR

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Kinda partial to CZ, have two 452s. A varmint in HMR and an American in .22mag. Both wear 6.5x20 scopes. In my limited experience, not much of an accuracy difference with preferred ammo. The HMR is less finicky and is right at MOA with everything. The .22 mag shows a definite preference for poly tip. Normally MOA with that, groups opening up a bit with 40 gr. .22 Mag definitely has more anchoring power. My go to ammo is the 35 gr A22. About as accurate as typical 40 gr, but hot. Ran some over a chrono with a friend. Consistently 2150-2200 through my CZ and his Savage.
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:41 PM
jaia
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Fourbore, 100 yards, 1 moa would be a 1.1 inch diameter circle.
About the same size as a squirrel skull, and folks are saying no problem.
Can do, with a 22wmr. I'd like to see it. Not for one or two shots.
But shot after shot, with the 22wmr. Doesn't even have to be off hand.
Use a bench. Use a mechanical rest. Show me.
I'd appreciate seeing someone capable of finding 22wmr ammo good enough to get it done.
Folks are saying they can do just that. I'd like to see it.
I can get the 22 wmr to maintain roughly 2.5 moa, at best, for the full box.
Can anyone improve on that? Give it a try, one dot, one shot, see what happens.

Last edited by jaia; 07-29-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2019, 05:58 PM
Vicko

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Some great replies coming in now thanks everyone. I'm not body-shooting anything that I'm going to eat, so it needs to be accurate. If I add my 'inbuilt human inaccuracy' to a 2moa rifle I may as well throw handfuls of wheat at them from 100 yards...

Part of the reason I like the idea of the CZ is the easily switchable barrel. And I was probably going to get an HMR at some point as well, I've just heard plenty of reports of foxes walking after being hit with them. Lots of folks seem to be coming back to the WMR. Maybe I'll get both barrels at the same time and if too many foxes walk with the HMR then I can return to the WMR.

Either way I'd have to go a 457 if a CZ, as the reverse safety on earlier models would do my head in something fierce. Thats part of the reason why I had been keen on a Ruger 77. Theres a second hand 77-17 at my local shop too... Scoped up for about the same price as a new CZ...
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2019, 06:13 PM
fourbore
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jaja, We can agree on one thing. Dont believe everything posted on the web.

Your challenge should not be limited to 22mag. And even more realistic would be unknown distances and yes one shot. That is it, one shot. No feedback to shooter. Move target and try again. Use an orange golf ball on top of a can. Real world is not a 100 yards and 22LR is dropping fast out at 100. I am sure you know, even the height of the scope can throw you off with any gun hitting golf balls at unknown varying ranges. Or maybe have someone setup 20 golf balls all at various distance from 10+/- yards to 100+ a little yards, kinda random.

Heck, this could be fun !
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2019, 06:18 PM
fourbore
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I dont eat squirrel, but; I shot a few with 22mag and the damage was not that severe. I guess it varies. Maybe the 17 is worse.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2019, 09:35 PM
Bradical
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Just this past week, my son and I were hunting ground hogs in a VT orchard. We both had 22WMR chambered rifles. His a CZ455 w/Hornady's 30g V-MAX, mine a Mossberg 640K w/CCI 40g MAXI MAG HPs. Both of our rifles are zeroed in at 100 yards. We found sign in the morning, didn't find any ground hogs though. We returned that evening and sure enough as we both crested a rise there the criter was feasting on blue berries. From our position we were each laser ranged to within feet of 70 yards.

My son's position was elevated about 15 feet, while mine was elevated about 20 feet. My son saw him first, and took a free hand shot. He missed and lost sight of the ground hog. I then saw him standing alert right before his path into the ferns. I took a free hand shot, also. My point of aim floated on his shoulders and I squeezed off a shot. Another miss. With that sight picture I was expecting the bullet to find his head. At 70 yards the CCI 40g round is supposed to hit 1.09" high. Wind was a none factor. I can only deduce that my point of aim was too high and I missed high by not aiming for the heart due to my elevated position. My son suspects he made the same error.

It was a very large orchard, 570+ arcres. Surprisingly that was the only ground hog we saw in two days. You can only do your best in the moment and try to learn. It's part of the fun.

We had a great time, regardless of our misses. We only felt a little sorry for our Orchard farming host. We enjoyed beautiful scenery in the Green Mountains and had a lot of fun. Bought some delicious blue berry baked goods. Including a to die for berry pie.

Was it us? Was it the ammo? Without a piece of cardboard behind the critter we'll never know for sure. I guess we'll just have to try again

Last edited by Bradical; 07-29-2019 at 10:46 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:55 PM
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Bottom Gun
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The Anschutz 64 based sporters would be a logical choice for a high end 22mag. In the usa, those can be found new, for about $1000. About what it cost me to get my 455 shooting properly. Accuacy will only be limited by the ammo.
I agree that firearm quality is paramount. Iíve owned a number of rifles in .22 mag and have found that group sizes shrink as the rifle quality increases.
My 164M and 141M Anschutz rifles (64 actions) will shoot much more accurately than the Marlins, Rugers and Remingtons Iíve owned.
In turn, my 1720 Anschutz (54 action) will regularly outshoot my 64 actions.

Iíve also discovered that my .22 mag rifles are more ammo specific than my .22 LR rifles in both 64 and 54 actions. No two rifles in my collection shoot the same ammo equally well.

FYI, sometimes good used Anschutz and CZ rifles can be found in local newspapers and local handout publications for a fraction of the cost of a new one. You have to be vigilant and ready to pounce as soon as you see one though because they sell very quickly.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:59 PM
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I wouldíve thought vibe backwards safety on the 455 would be de rigour in a country that drives on the tong side of the road and whose toilets flush in the wrong direction
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:01 PM
jaia
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Dang 2many...I wish I'd thought of that first.
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2019, 05:43 AM
Vicko

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Our toilets flush downwards.. what direction do yours flush??!!
Mind you that might explain a few things...
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:03 AM
fourbore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Fourbore, 100 yards, 1 moa would be a 1.1 inch diameter circle.

... snip ....

.
Waiting for my coffee, I decided to fact check this. I know 1" at 100 is a very close approximation for 1 MOA. I will trust in wiki:

Quote:
The arcminute is commonly found in the firearms industry and literature, particularly concerning the accuracy of rifles, though the industry refers to it as minute of angle (MOA). It is especially popular with shooters familiar with the imperial measurement system because 1 MOA is subtended by a sphere with a diameter of 1.047 inches at 100 yards (2.908 cm at 100 m), a traditional distance on U.S. target ranges.
Rounded to two significant digits yields 1.0 inch.

..... I smell the coffee ....
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  #29  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:39 AM
jaia
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Y'er right FB....I rounded up, not down, giving folks the benefit of the doubt.


Vicko, toilets that flush up are called bidets.
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  #30  
Old 07-31-2019, 12:24 PM
Nerostarr
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I try not to get all hung up on MOA accuracy, and almost all of my shooting is between 80 and 160 yards. My caliber of choice is 22 mag and I do fairly well with it, as I've been known to hit a golf ball a time or three out at 100 yards. It helps if you have a quality rifle and quality ammo to go with it. I mostly shoot clay birds and small objects at 160 yards every weekend and the 22 mag never lets me down. Shooting tiny holes in paper bores me and I never really enjoyed it at all, so I switched it up and hitting small objects at a far distance keeps me entertained. It actually taught me a whole lot about my rifle and what it takes to be an accurate shooter.
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