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Old 07-13-2019, 11:32 AM
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The age old question, mkiv with volquartsen parts or spring for a volquartsen scorp?



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(Cross posted in the mkiv section also)

Gentlemen I'm at a bit of a crossroad. Im an avid .22 pistol shooter, and pretty good at it (wish I was better but who doesn't?). I dont currently compete, but I plan on changing that in the near future. I practice with a few gents that shoot bullseye, even running practice matches with them. It's an agreement among them, that I should absolutely shoot competitively, but they're "sure as rain, glad I dont." I currently own a 3 screw single 6, that I run probably close to 20k rounds a year through. I used to shoot that puppy from close range out to 250 or so yards. I recently got a contender pistol with an mgm 22lr match barrel that I'm shooting long ranges with, so the trusty 6 has been relegated to sub 50 yard shooting. More often than not, I shoot at 25 paces at spent cases, running from shotgun shells on down to handgun brass and even sometimes managing to hit spent 22 cases at that distance.%

So my question is, in your opinions do you think I would reap the benefits of stepping straight to a volquartsen or should I build a mkiv? Its not a strict match gun, even if I dont enjoy matches, I still want an incredible target gun. I have considered a European target pistol but they're just a bit out of reach financially, and I honestly dont know enough about them.%

Help please.
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:12 PM
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That is a easy question for me. I have a Ruger MK III upgraded with parts and a Volquartsen Scorpion 6in, there is no comparison. If you don't mid spending the money, go with the scorpion, you will not be disappointed.

My current question is Volquartsen Scorpion vs Volquartsen Black Mamba for a for a 4.5in Rimfire Steel Challenge pistol. Same issue, Black Mamba is easier to take apart, but uses a Ruger MK IV 22/45 frame. I talked to VQ and they do not plan to produce a MK IV frame anytime soon due to Ruger patents.

I think I am going to stay with the scorpion, but am still doing research on reviews about the Black Mamba I can find.
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:39 PM
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Just this week I acquired a Scorpion, and shot it today for the first time. The balance and trigger are to die for. I wish I would have done is sooner!
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  #4  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:18 AM
openspaces
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I have a couple mark ii, a scorpion, and have a used mark iv lite shipping to me now. The only reason I bought the lite is to economically try out the 22/45 grip angle.

In sharp contrast to you I am a horrible shot and will likely not fully realize the accuracy benefits of another scorpion. That said if I like the grip angle I will likely sell the lite and buy another 22/45 scorpion. (Not mamba, the mark iv button is not that big of a benefit for me and I think you can actually build out a ďmambaĒ cheaper than the list price.)

I prefer the volquartsen bolt and trigger. If I bought those to upgrade a 22/45 itíd be 3-400. At that point the cost difference is not meaningful for me to build it out.

The build quality, trigger feel, and balance of the scorpion is fantastic.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openspaces View Post

In sharp contrast to you I am a horrible shot and will likely not fully realize the accuracy benefits of another scorpion.
I'm thinking you are exaggerating about being a horrible shot. Anyway, I'm not a very good shot and do not compete at all, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a nice quality target pistol.
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2019, 01:58 PM
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I thoroughly enjoy my Scorpion. However, they are pricey.
I suggest if you want to pay the price to step up to one to do so.
I don't know what the cost difference would be compared to putting one together with a MKIV frame, but you should be happy either way.
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:19 PM
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I have a Scorpion that I built from parts on sale (holiday sales, VQ clearances, free shipping etc.) and it took about a year. It has a 6 in upper and a target grip frame. I also have two MKIII 22/45s, one target 5.5 and one Lite. I use them all for targets and plinking. Now Iím saving up to start on the second Scorpion. This one will be a 1911 grip frame and a 4.5 upper threaded barrel and I think Iíll go with night sights this time.

To go this route I can swap around uppers and lowers with the guns I have so I can play with the new pieces before the gun is completed. That helps ease the pain of the ďpay as you go planĒ.

The Scorpions are nice guns, good shooters and you canít beat VQ customer service. Theyíll support you even if you piece it together. Itís a good company to do business with.

To me its worth the extra $ for a firearm of thus quality when Iím done.
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:54 PM
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This comes down to whether or not its a MKIV or a MKIII setup, and also to whether or not you can legitimately say you own a SCORPION. I mulled it over 2yrs ago, and decided I was going to build up a MKIV based LLV4. Its not a Scorpion. I don't call it that. I would not trade it for any version of the MKIII Scorpion either. Battleworn finish or otherwise. Same can be said for many people with a VQ ordered Scorpion pistiol as well. If you are going MKIII based, then I'd go Scorpion over a parted up LLV on a Ruger frame. With the MKIV based LLV4 upper, you have the aluminum Ruger lower to base it on, which weighs just a hair less than a VQ MKIII lower with the mainspring installed.

The good thing is, you won't go wrong any way you cut the cake.

The post above me is another good way of building your own actual Scorpion, and if you put all that together with all VQ parts, its a Scorpion whether you bought it as one piece or not.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:49 AM
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Ruger MK pistols, so good you gotta replace all the parts.
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:08 PM
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Legos. Same as a 10-22, or 1911, or AR-15. Other stuff would be as well if companies offered the stuff for them.
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  #11  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trashyshoots View Post
(Cross posted in the mkiv section also)

Gentlemen I'm at a bit of a crossroad. Im an avid .22 pistol shooter, and pretty good at it (wish I was better but who doesn't?). I dont currently compete, but I plan on changing that in the near future. I practice with a few gents that shoot bullseye, even running practice matches with them. It's an agreement among them, that I should absolutely shoot competitively, but they're "sure as rain, glad I dont." I currently own a 3 screw single 6, that I run probably close to 20k rounds a year through. I used to shoot that puppy from close range out to 250 or so yards. I recently got a contender pistol with an mgm 22lr match barrel that I'm shooting long ranges with, so the trusty 6 has been relegated to sub 50 yard shooting. More often than not, I shoot at 25 paces at spent cases, running from shotgun shells on down to handgun brass and even sometimes managing to hit spent 22 cases at that distance.%

So my question is, in your opinions do you think I would reap the benefits of stepping straight to a volquartsen or should I build a mkiv? Its not a strict match gun, even if I dont enjoy matches, I still want an incredible target gun. I have considered a European target pistol but they're just a bit out of reach financially, and I honestly dont know enough about them.%

Help please.
If you are looking at the Scorpion I would also check out the Hammerli Xesse. They are a little less than the Scorpion and they shoot very very well. Here is mine. I have an upgraded trigger and Nil grips on it. This is the 4.5 inch model. Champion Choice carries these. These used to be called the Sig Trailside. A lot of the people I compete with use these and the Sigs. Are they Walthers GSP or Pardinis? No but they will hang with them. Also mine shoots CCI SV well enough that I got my first 100 on the timed fire with it. I shoot bullseye at 50’
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rmeintel View Post
If you are looking at the Scorpion I would also check out the Hammerli Xesse. They are a little less than the Scorpion and they shoot very very well. Here is mine. I have an upgraded trigger and Nil grips on it. This is the 4.5 inch model. Champion Choice carries these. These used to be called the Sig Trailside. A lot of the people I compete with use these and the Sigs. Are they Walthers GSP or Pardinis? No but they will hang with them. Also mine shoots CCI SV well enough that I got my first 100 on the timed fire with it. I shoot bullseye at 50í
How often do those require a full take down and cleaning? Ive heard (might be hearsay) that a lot of European target pistols require a lot of deep cleaning to keep running well.
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:35 AM
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Volquartsen does Ruger better than Ruger does Ruger.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:40 AM
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I think there are three ways to go.

1) OEM Ruger with VQ hammer and sear. The Ruger barrels can be quite good. The best of mine are as good as my LLV right out of the box. The aiming system is more important than the brand here, with a red dot sight dramatically improving my accuracy over iron sights.

Here's a typical target from a Mk IV Standard with VQ trigger and sear and a Tandem Kross firing pin:





2) Ruger lower with VQ hammer and sear, and an LLV upper. This gets you to 95% of the Scorpion's performance at,say, 2/3 the cost (made that number up). I went this route with a Mk III, and saw dramatic improvements. I don't see the need to replace the bolt, firing pin, hammer, mainspring etc. My Ruger OEM parts worked just fine.





3) Or you can straight up buy the all-VQ model. The following isn't. It is everything VQ but the bolt/firing pin combo, but you get the idea:



Honestly, they all shoot great. What I really wish I owned was one of the VQ space guns from when they were doing extensive modifications on the Mk II's. Water under the bridge.

There might be three reasons to go the all VQ route. First, VQ is a small company and their customer service is great. If there is any issue, they will work with you. Ruger has good CS too, but it is harder to talk to the person working on your pistol. So: premium product, premium service. Second, if it is important to you to have an all VQ pistol for bragging rights or for pride of ownership, don't cheap out. You'll just regret you don't have what you really wanted. Third, if those VQ "Volthane" grips are just perfect for you, you might as well go whole hog. You can add them to a Ruger pistol, of course, but with enough parts swapping, you'll get to the same price eventually. I guess, fourth would be "buy once/cry once" but the Rugers are such a good value in my opinion it is hard to see how you'd be crying if you got one.

Finally, if competition is really your goal, you might attend a match and see what folks in your area are winning with. There are some really nice pistols that are not exactly "mass market" and RFC shooters who have a lot of experience with them. VQ is not the only game in town, and has been mentioned above, once you are in "nosebleed territory" on price, you might look around you and see what else can be had for that amount.

Good luck! Let us know what you choose. . . and post pics. Folks here love their pictures.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:28 PM
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I had one of the original 22/45 Lite in gold. I ended up replacing about everything with VQ parts. I bought a VQ Scorpion and sold the Lite. I miss the Lite to the point I just bought a 22/45 tactical and a Pac Sol barrel for a Mark IV 22/45.

The VQ is nice but it is super heavy and I was spoiled by how light in weight the Lite is. If I was buying brand new I would get a VQ Black Mamba which is the VQ upper in a stock Ruger frame. Then if VQ eventually makes an aluminum frame there you go! Ruger does have an aluminum frame in the target style but I prefer the 1911 grip so I patiently wait. The barrel swap of the Mark IV makes me debate on selling my VQ Scorpion.

Also Tac Sol just released an integral silencer barrel for the Mark IV.



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