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Old 07-11-2019, 05:20 AM
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Trashyshoots

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Help with theories (Very long winded 300blk content)



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First of all, let me start by thanking this forum, I have lurked for a long while, and soaked up a lot of great information that has helped me.%


I would like to test a few theories about my next build im considering in the quest of a 1000 yard pistol. Yes, pistol.%


I will also take this time to apologize, because I over explain things, and I am long winded, while not being particularly interesting.


I have neen into long range pistol shooting since I was young but have only gotten serious about it in the last few years. I have dabbled in precision shooting, but my heart lies with handguns. I have been known to terrorize my local blm shooting ranges with 357s out to 400+ yards, but quickly became tired of the front sight covering the target due to elevation and the mechanical accuracy limits of revolvers themselves, also as (my) luck would have it, my favorite revolvers having issues unusually unheard of (for these particular models), putting them out of commission for months. However, this post isn't about 686 locking mechanisms turning revolvers into loaded paperweights or gp100s with bent pawls and cracked forcing cones(all with factory 158gr ammo I didnt reload then), its about the journey and theory. (Protip NEVER buy "run of the mill" revolvers used)%%


I knew rifles were vastly superior in terms of accuracy, but I'm stubborn. Thankfully there were guns out there that were tempting. Remington xp100s were always an answer, but typically out of my budget and the 223 models having 1:12 twists weren't ideal for heavier 223 loads. I even went so far as to consider a ground up build of a bolt action pistol, using something like a kelby action, but again, way out of the budget.%


And then the answer hit me. A contender build. The frames were affordable and there were plenty of custom barrel makers that would help me out in my quest of long range pistol shooting out to 500 yards.%


I bought a frame, and had a trigger job done, I also spec'd out two barrels, one in 22lr match (I'm not anywhere near rich so I shoot .22s 95% of the time) and a 12 inch 223 barrel with built in muzzle brake (more on that later) and a 1:7 twist to stabilize 80gr bullets or higher.%


Both barrels are incredible, they both will print sub moa groups rested at 100 yards (I'm tickled pink about my 22lr barrel being that accurate) the 223 has made those 400+ yard shots on steel almost easy. Crosshairs are much better than bulky sights for distance shooting, and instead of aiming 12ft over the target, its just down to the next notch in the scope when zeroed @ 100.%

%

But there are negatives to it.

1. The concussion is outrageous%

A 12 inch 223 barrel with a muzzlebrake might not have been the best idea. Its unpleasant to shoot groups with and actually target practice with. Outside of about 50 rounds spaced out in groups of 5, it's honestly too rowdy.%


2. I now have access to 1,000 yards on blm land that I learned about through mutual friends. And I'm worried the 223 will get pushed by wind, and I'm worried about the transonic instabilites. And that concussion is just too much to hone my skills further. I tried it a few times at a 24x24 plate and was having a lot of issues.


So need less to say, I've been on a search for a new caliber, and I think I've come to a conclusion but its based on a lot of theories I need help with. I thought about a 38 special 357 mag, 357 max, 44 mag, 45acp, 9mm, 40s&w, 10mm and 9x25 dillon, but ruled them out due to awful ballistic coefficients, I thought about 6.5 grendel, 224 valkyrie, and even considered an encore in 308, but recoil, concussion and my desire for a short barrel (I like to offhand pistols not just rest them) ruled them out. And then it hit me 300blk shooting subsonics


Heres my idea and reasoning behind it, and theories.%


Subsonic: so that dreaded concussion will be reduced (this barrel will not have a muzzlebrake), and no worries about the round going transsonic and "wobbling" if it starts subsonic%

Recoil: should be very manageable in a 5 pound pistol. My personal recoil limit is hot 44 mags, I'm willing to bet heavy 300blks are less recoil than normal 44 mags

Short barrel efficiency: I have read subsonic 300blk is most efficient in shorter barrels.%

Wind resistance: heavy 30 cals have ballistic coefficients smaller calibers dream about. Especially at "pistol" speeds

Ammo availability: a non issue since I reload, but its always a nice option for informal plinking with the family.%

And 30 cal holes are just easier to see on paper.%


So heres the plan for the next barrel

12 inches to get 230-250 gr bullets up to speed with out pressure issues, and to keep things matching, my other barrels are 12 inches.%

1:7 twist, for stabilizing those heavy pigs.%

No muzzlebrake (learned my lesson)

Full bull, no contour.%

Built on 6 inch 20moa rail%


Ontop of said barrel an ivey 200moa base. I like to shoot from 100 yards on out, so I dont want to go with fixed rails, even though, I know theyre "better"


And scope choices I have many handgun and rifle scopes in drawers. It will probably get an swfa fixed 10x42HD. The way I hold pistols makes rifle scopes work.%


Is there anything in my thinking thats completely wrong? I know its outlandish, but it all seems sound as individual theories. I know my powder throws will have to be perfect (trickler ftw) i know that my drops will be upwards of 170moa, but I feel like I've thought of it all. If im wrong somewhere, or haven't considered something please, let me know.%
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:47 AM
Test_Engineer

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trashyshoots View Post
I would like to test a few theories about my next build im considering in the quest of a 1000 yard pistol. Yes, pistol.%

... And then it hit me 300blk shooting subsonics.

So heres the plan for the next barrel

12 inches to get 230-250 gr bullets up to speed with out pressure issues, and to keep things matching, my other barrels are 12 inches.%

1:7 twist, for stabilizing those heavy pigs.%

No muzzlebrake (learned my lesson)

Full bull, no contour.%

Built on 6 inch 20moa rail%

Ontop of said barrel an ivey 200moa base. I like to shoot from 100 yards on out, so I dont want to go with fixed rails, even though, I know theyre "better"

Is there anything in my thinking thats completely wrong? I know its outlandish, but it all seems sound as individual theories. I know my powder throws will have to be perfect (trickler ftw) i know that my drops will be upwards of 170moa, but I feel like I've thought of it all. If im wrong somewhere, or haven't considered something please, let me know.%

Well, I'm not an expert at long range shooting - especially with a handgun. But there are experts in the field who have done a good bit of research and testing and published their results.

You might read this article (scroll down to the Subsonic Ammunition section):

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/5-...out-ballistics

Even though you're thinking of a 12" barrel vs. a 9" barrel tested in the article, I think you're probably looking at a minimum 1500moa drop at 1000 yds. That's about 10x the 170moa+ you mentioned you expect. And a 220moa rail system will probably only get you out to the 400-500 yard range.

I just think you've WAY underestimated the bullet drop at 1000 yards. Other than that, it seems your theories are on track based on the conclusions of the article's author.
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:56 AM
rc.

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My friend, you can certainly put together a bottle neck 300 blackout but I think what you want is a 327 Federal with a 308 bore. You'll be able to sling 110grain rifle bullets out at near 2300fps from a 12 inch barrel and if you get it rifled 308 you can shoot all common 30 caliber bullets too. I bet 125 spitzers could be pushed to 2000 fps or more. People did this a lot in the 80s with the 32 magnum. You can hit 1500 fps in a 4 inch barrel with a 327 federal. It's no joke! While it's got unpleasant blast out of a 4 inch barrel it should be soooo much better than a 223 pistol out of a long pistol barrel and will be easier to reload than the bottle neck blackout round. You also should consider a 7.62x39 custom build. That case has a lot more capacity than a blackout.

Last edited by rc.; 08-29-2019 at 02:00 AM.
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