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  #46  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:27 PM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubhane View Post
Thanks for the sage advice Kenny.
I'll be going to the range this week and will try your suggestions. My range is hosting an IR50/50 shoot Aug. 3rd. and I plan to attend so that, I can observe what others are doing.

Regards,
Duane
No issues...my advice comes from the tried and true method of "if it's possible to do something wrong, I've done it". The thing is, what works for one might not work for others. There are some main rules to adhere to, but other than that, you just go by your sighters and trust yourself and your gun. Sometimes it works, sometimes...well sometimes you question why you do this.

Is this your first formal match? If so, try this-

At your next "practice", shoot it as if you were shooting a 3 card IR match. Set your timer, and just think of this as a match. Clean your gun as if it was a match, shoot the targets as if it was a match. See how you do. It will tell you more than shooting a target and shooting groups or overshooting a miss here and there.

One thing too, I never think of shooting outside of a match as practice. What you should be doing is testing, so think of anytime you're shooting a gun as a testing session. I don't know too many who are near the top of this game as needing to practice anything. But they do test a lot. Maybe a play on words, but it puts you in the right frame of mind.

Do use flags, use as many sighters as you need. Pay more attention to where your bullet is actually going instead of where your wind rose says it should go. Don't be afraid to check something on the sighters.

Use all the time you have. Never "hope" a shot will hit. If there's doubt, shoot a sighter.

Stay away from trying to steal a point on a switch or lull change. That only works until it doesn't.

Don't try to shoot every condition. Find one prevailing and use that. If there is a lot of switching and changing, find two and use those. Never fall into the process of trying to shoot every condition. If it's not what you want, wait for what you do want.

Set your flags out as soon as you can after arriving at the range. Spend the time before the match watching the flags. See what the prevailing wind is. It will change here and there but overall it usually will give you an idea of what it's going to return to. At least it gives you a general idea of what might happen during the match itself.

As to what conditions to shoot, again, find what works and shoot what works.

If you miss, don't give up on the target. If you miss twice, don't give up on the target. If you miss three times, don't give up on the target. See a trend here? Never give up on a target. Do I always do this, ha, no way. I've gotten mad and finished a target in just a couple of minutes after a bad miss. And most times, at the end of the match I regret it as you find others have misses too! A little story from real life. Was at a big match recently. Shot a 249 on the first target in terrible wind. Shot a 249 on the second target in the same wind. Shot a 249 on the third target is the same. Was really mad at myself. I had no idea what was happening or why. Couldn't get a handle on the wind and why I was seeing so much variation. Was trying a new tuner and thought maybe it was the reason. But it is very rare for me to not shoot at least one or two 250's in a match. Not that I'm good, just that I have a good gun. So, on the second match, started off with another 249, then another. Was really mad then. So, switched tuners to something I'd shot before. Trouble was, in my haste to stick the thing on, forgot the carbon fiber bloop. Got to the bench and couldn't figure out why things were haywire. Then realized I'd forgotten the bloop! Not my finest moment! Couldn't for the life of me remember what setting I should use with just the tuner alone. So, ended up giving away a match as if I'd just have shot another 249 I would have finished in the top two or three at a minimum. Did finally figure it out on the last row but by then the damage had been done. But I do stupid stuff all the time. Anyway, moral of the story, stay with your target, don't give up and wait until all the scores are final before seeing where you finish. You may just do better than you think.

One final note in this long winded post about stuff that is supposed to be fun...if you want, get an extra IR target, cut it up into 5 rows. So now you've got 5 strips of 5 scoring bulls. Hang one to the side or bottom of your scoring target. Now you've got some extra sighter bulls to use. I usually use the backer itself for this. Before starting a target, I shoot one bullet down the side of the target, level with each row. When shooting the target itself I will use the sighter bulls on the target to check something, but if something is way off, I just go to the hole I shot in the backer and use that as a reference point to get things figured out. Saves a lot of holes in your sighter bulls. Too many holes and you have no idea what the heck your bullet is actually doing!

Just some advice from someone who had a little success in this game. Was never a world beater, but did ok here and there when I paid attention. It's a fun game if you want it to be. Don't try to make it into something it's not. There are enough people in this that already have that covered.

Good luck, and take care. Get the 250 on the first target, then just shoot another on the second. All you've got to do then is shoot one simple 250 on the third target and you've now shot a 750! Simple isn't it As my buddy always told me...if you miss a shot on the last target, you're a miserable failure! I laugh about it, but it was just a way for us to rag on one another. Never think you're a failure. Just shoot your targets, take ownership of your brain farts and learn from your misses. You'll be fine.

Kenny

Last edited by kseatm; 07-14-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-15-2019, 03:43 PM
Hoot
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I don't claim to be an expert but I do well sometimes. This one used to bite me in the butt enough that I finally stopped doing it. I have a static flag condition that I've worked out a POA solution for. Going along on a string of 100's (ARA) when without any warning one breaks out centered but low into a 50. (Could be anywhere but still a 50). "Ah that's just an anomaly, must be a Center-X Moment" I used to mumble and go on to the next bull with the same POA; Only to repeat another 50 in the same spot! Assuming its suddenly the less expensive ammo's fault in a string of 100's is dumb. As many others have said, go to your sighters. That's what they're there for. The time lost will rarely if ever, make you have to rush at the end. I'm usually one of the last shooters done on a pair of cards (we shoot two per relay) and there's still more than 5 minutes left out of the 40.

In our State ARA Match a couple of Sundays ago, I averaged 2300 for 6 cards. That never happened back when I wrote any 50 off as an anomaly. (may never happen again anyway. I'm not that good.)

"Take the time or risk losing the next bull".

Hoot

Lest I forget. Like others, I get bit in the butt (the most) by head and tail winds.

Last edited by Hoot; 07-15-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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  #48  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:16 PM
linekin
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Last fall at the Sporter Nationals I was struggling for the 1st 2 targets in the meters match with conditions. I decided what I was doing wasn't working so I'd shoot only a stiff head wind. Won the target with a 247 something. Hoot, sometimes they are your friend!...as long as they are consistent.

Keith
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  #49  
Old 07-18-2019, 05:24 PM
Dubhane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
No issues...my advice comes from the tried and true method of "if it's possible to do something wrong, I've done it". The thing is, what works for one might not work for others. There are some main rules to adhere to, but other than that, you just go by your sighters and trust yourself and your gun. Sometimes it works, sometimes...well sometimes you question why you do this.

Is this your first formal match? If so, try this-

At your next "practice", shoot it as if you were shooting a 3 card IR match. Set your timer, and just think of this as a match. Clean your gun as if it was a match, shoot the targets as if it was a match. See how you do. It will tell you more than shooting a target and shooting groups or overshooting a miss here and there.

One thing too, I never think of shooting outside of a match as practice. What you should be doing is testing, so think of anytime you're shooting a gun as a testing session. I don't know too many who are near the top of this game as needing to practice anything. But they do test a lot. Maybe a play on words, but it puts you in the right frame of mind.

Do use flags, use as many sighters as you need. Pay more attention to where your bullet is actually going instead of where your wind rose says it should go. Don't be afraid to check something on the sighters.

Use all the time you have. Never "hope" a shot will hit. If there's doubt, shoot a sighter.

Stay away from trying to steal a point on a switch or lull change. That only works until it doesn't.

Don't try to shoot every condition. Find one prevailing and use that. If there is a lot of switching and changing, find two and use those. Never fall into the process of trying to shoot every condition. If it's not what you want, wait for what you do want.

Set your flags out as soon as you can after arriving at the range. Spend the time before the match watching the flags. See what the prevailing wind is. It will change here and there but overall it usually will give you an idea of what it's going to return to. At least it gives you a general idea of what might happen during the match itself.

As to what conditions to shoot, again, find what works and shoot what works.

If you miss, don't give up on the target. If you miss twice, don't give up on the target. If you miss three times, don't give up on the target. See a trend here? Never give up on a target. Do I always do this, ha, no way. I've gotten mad and finished a target in just a couple of minutes after a bad miss. And most times, at the end of the match I regret it as you find others have misses too! A little story from real life. Was at a big match recently. Shot a 249 on the first target in terrible wind. Shot a 249 on the second target in the same wind. Shot a 249 on the third target is the same. Was really mad at myself. I had no idea what was happening or why. Couldn't get a handle on the wind and why I was seeing so much variation. Was trying a new tuner and thought maybe it was the reason. But it is very rare for me to not shoot at least one or two 250's in a match. Not that I'm good, just that I have a good gun. So, on the second match, started off with another 249, then another. Was really mad then. So, switched tuners to something I'd shot before. Trouble was, in my haste to stick the thing on, forgot the carbon fiber bloop. Got to the bench and couldn't figure out why things were haywire. Then realized I'd forgotten the bloop! Not my finest moment! Couldn't for the life of me remember what setting I should use with just the tuner alone. So, ended up giving away a match as if I'd just have shot another 249 I would have finished in the top two or three at a minimum. Did finally figure it out on the last row but by then the damage had been done. But I do stupid stuff all the time. Anyway, moral of the story, stay with your target, don't give up and wait until all the scores are final before seeing where you finish. You may just do better than you think.

One final note in this long winded post about stuff that is supposed to be fun...if you want, get an extra IR target, cut it up into 5 rows. So now you've got 5 strips of 5 scoring bulls. Hang one to the side or bottom of your scoring target. Now you've got some extra sighter bulls to use. I usually use the backer itself for this. Before starting a target, I shoot one bullet down the side of the target, level with each row. When shooting the target itself I will use the sighter bulls on the target to check something, but if something is way off, I just go to the hole I shot in the backer and use that as a reference point to get things figured out. Saves a lot of holes in your sighter bulls. Too many holes and you have no idea what the heck your bullet is actually doing!

Just some advice from someone who had a little success in this game. Was never a world beater, but did ok here and there when I paid attention. It's a fun game if you want it to be. Don't try to make it into something it's not. There are enough people in this that already have that covered.

Good luck, and take care. Get the 250 on the first target, then just shoot another on the second. All you've got to do then is shoot one simple 250 on the third target and you've now shot a 750! Simple isn't it As my buddy always told me...if you miss a shot on the last target, you're a miserable failure! I laugh about it, but it was just a way for us to rag on one another. Never think you're a failure. Just shoot your targets, take ownership of your brain farts and learn from your misses. You'll be fine.

Kenny
Kenny, thank you again for your advice. I won't be shooting at the IR50/50 event, I just plan to observe. I did put your advice to work at the range Tuesday with some success. I don't have any IR50/50 targets, but was shooting a target that has 30 bulls with a 0.10" dot in the center. The dots are at the center of a circle that measures 0.50" inside and 0.60" on the outside. A hit that touches the dot scores one point, a hit that touches the circle scores two points and a hit that falls outside the circle scores three points. The object is to get the lowest score. The winds were very light but also switched a lot. After readjusting my scope and shooting a few bulls to see what my hold off should be, I shot a full 30 bull target. I managed to hit at least a portion of the dot 21 times and the surrounding circle 8 times. I do not have a serious benchrest rifle. I have an Anschutz 64 MPR wit a Weaver T-36 scope. The rifle is stock other than It has been pillar bedded. I think it shoots quite well for what it is.


Duane
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  #50  
Old 07-18-2019, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kseatm View Post
No issues...my advice comes from the tried and true method of "if it's possible to do something wrong, I've done it". The thing is, what works for one might not work for others. There are some main rules to adhere to, but other than that, you just go by your sighters and trust yourself and your gun. Sometimes it works, sometimes...well sometimes you question why you do this.

Is this your first formal match? If so, try this-

At your next "practice", shoot it as if you were shooting a 3 card IR match. Set your timer, and just think of this as a match. Clean your gun as if it was a match, shoot the targets as if it was a match. See how you do. It will tell you more than shooting a target and shooting groups or overshooting a miss here and there.

One thing too, I never think of shooting outside of a match as practice. What you should be doing is testing, so think of anytime you're shooting a gun as a testing session. I don't know too many who are near the top of this game as needing to practice anything. But they do test a lot. Maybe a play on words, but it puts you in the right frame of mind.

Do use flags, use as many sighters as you need. Pay more attention to where your bullet is actually going instead of where your wind rose says it should go. Don't be afraid to check something on the sighters.

Use all the time you have. Never "hope" a shot will hit. If there's doubt, shoot a sighter.

Stay away from trying to steal a point on a switch or lull change. That only works until it doesn't.

Don't try to shoot every condition. Find one prevailing and use that. If there is a lot of switching and changing, find two and use those. Never fall into the process of trying to shoot every condition. If it's not what you want, wait for what you do want.

Set your flags out as soon as you can after arriving at the range. Spend the time before the match watching the flags. See what the prevailing wind is. It will change here and there but overall it usually will give you an idea of what it's going to return to. At least it gives you a general idea of what might happen during the match itself.

As to what conditions to shoot, again, find what works and shoot what works.

If you miss, don't give up on the target. If you miss twice, don't give up on the target. If you miss three times, don't give up on the target. See a trend here? Never give up on a target. Do I always do this, ha, no way. I've gotten mad and finished a target in just a couple of minutes after a bad miss. And most times, at the end of the match I regret it as you find others have misses too! A little story from real life. Was at a big match recently. Shot a 249 on the first target in terrible wind. Shot a 249 on the second target in the same wind. Shot a 249 on the third target is the same. Was really mad at myself. I had no idea what was happening or why. Couldn't get a handle on the wind and why I was seeing so much variation. Was trying a new tuner and thought maybe it was the reason. But it is very rare for me to not shoot at least one or two 250's in a match. Not that I'm good, just that I have a good gun. So, on the second match, started off with another 249, then another. Was really mad then. So, switched tuners to something I'd shot before. Trouble was, in my haste to stick the thing on, forgot the carbon fiber bloop. Got to the bench and couldn't figure out why things were haywire. Then realized I'd forgotten the bloop! Not my finest moment! Couldn't for the life of me remember what setting I should use with just the tuner alone. So, ended up giving away a match as if I'd just have shot another 249 I would have finished in the top two or three at a minimum. Did finally figure it out on the last row but by then the damage had been done. But I do stupid stuff all the time. Anyway, moral of the story, stay with your target, don't give up and wait until all the scores are final before seeing where you finish. You may just do better than you think.

One final note in this long winded post about stuff that is supposed to be fun...if you want, get an extra IR target, cut it up into 5 rows. So now you've got 5 strips of 5 scoring bulls. Hang one to the side or bottom of your scoring target. Now you've got some extra sighter bulls to use. I usually use the backer itself for this. Before starting a target, I shoot one bullet down the side of the target, level with each row. When shooting the target itself I will use the sighter bulls on the target to check something, but if something is way off, I just go to the hole I shot in the backer and use that as a reference point to get things figured out. Saves a lot of holes in your sighter bulls. Too many holes and you have no idea what the heck your bullet is actually doing!

Just some advice from someone who had a little success in this game. Was never a world beater, but did ok here and there when I paid attention. It's a fun game if you want it to be. Don't try to make it into something it's not. There are enough people in this that already have that covered.

Good luck, and take care. Get the 250 on the first target, then just shoot another on the second. All you've got to do then is shoot one simple 250 on the third target and you've now shot a 750! Simple isn't it As my buddy always told me...if you miss a shot on the last target, you're a miserable failure! I laugh about it, but it was just a way for us to rag on one another. Never think you're a failure. Just shoot your targets, take ownership of your brain farts and learn from your misses. You'll be fine.

Kenny
Super advice as always Kenny.

Roll on the weekend, like others here, I'll figure out and beat that wind yet.

Giz
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  #51  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:15 PM
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10 o'clock, anyone who has shot small bore knows this. marty
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  #52  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:44 PM
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Lmao I just shot one my highest targets of the season with a 10 o'clock wind so maybe it's just you. Not everyone or very gun is the same. I find it's the hardest coming straight right or straight left but that's just me.
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  #53  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:40 PM
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anyone has has had experienced real target shooting will know this advice. " a condition within a condition" their are only few conditions this means anything to. most and that's about 99.9999999% of shooters have never had shooting coaches. Paul himes and Phill Missitano where my 1st at age 6 thru 14." anyone remanyone heard of the cowan rest?"for many years Joe was an instructor at riggles gap, my kids all went thru his and Don Blazer insrtuctions. I can tell you those thru my 60's. no man is an island. most just wing it and why few at my age can still shoot a 23/5 target. very few have the conviction and stamina to shoot that target past a few years as it can take 10 or more years to master. most just wing it and have opinions and my guess...marty
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Old 09-27-2019, 10:08 PM
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golf and target shooting have 1 thing in common....course management. marty
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  #55  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:15 PM
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about wind and targets shooting, getting out of bed on a day like this is great and easy. marty
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  #56  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:19 PM
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life in general is about sticktoatvnous..when no one else gets out of bed. every thing else is just opinions, everyone has one. marty

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  #57  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:56 PM
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so anyway about wind and speed. often at the range someone would say the wind is from the west at such a speed. so I would ask what's that mean to you? well never, not once did those shooters know that ALL WEATHER RELATED EQUIPMENT WAS AND IS ELEVATED 30 FEET. so what does 30 feet have to do with ground level? who knows. folks can't be this naivete, but they are. marty
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:00 PM
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ps. most shooters and folks in general fit right in with, Plato in the cave theory. marty
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  #59  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:26 AM
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Some more thoughts...Highdollar's shooting cross flags is always an option, sometimes the only good one. There is always wind, air movement of some sort. Wind in and of itself does not decrease the accuracy of your rifle. Don't wait for a 50 to go to the sighters, do it ANY TIME your shot doesn't go where you want it to even if that shot is a solid 100 or an X.
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  #60  
Old 09-28-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
Some more thoughts...Highdollar's shooting cross flags is always an option, sometimes the only good one. There is always wind, air movement of some sort. Wind in and of itself does not decrease the accuracy of your rifle. Don't wait for a 50 to go to the sighters, do it ANY TIME your shot doesn't go where you want it to even if that shot is a solid 100 or an X.
"Don't wait for a 50 to go to the sighters, do it ANY TIME your shot doesn't go where you want it to even if that shot is a solid 100 or an X."

That's a good tip. I had not thought of that, and after reading it, it seems obvious. Too easy to take a good shot for granted when perhaps it really was just good fortune. Thanks for posting that!

Take care,

Greg
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