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  #46  
Old 05-11-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Bucko, do a search for my build of the Fuglie and Son of Fuglie on RFC.
Both are barrel block rigs. Still in use in the RFC Long Range forum.
See the 50 at 200 thread. My 455 Varmint is a bedded barrel also.
Had to in order to be able to use a bipod and stop the springboard effect.
Thanks!
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  #47  
Old 05-11-2019, 06:18 PM
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I decided to pick up the gauntlet thrown down by Jaia.

We had a break in the Spring winds that lasted long enough for me to grab my favorite .22 magnum and set up a target in the canyon where I like to shoot. I paced off 100 yd but when I checked it with my rangefinder, the rangefinder read 105 yd. I figured that was close enough.

I had time to shoot two groups before the wind kicked up again. I shot the first group with Federal 50 gr HP which was more to burn the oil out of the bore than for accuracy since that ammo has never shot particularly well in this rifle.

The second group was shot with 40 gr CCI HP which has been the most consistent ammo in this rifle. The wind was starting up again as I was finishing this group so I didn’t try for more since I know from past experience how wind can affect this cartridge.

I’ve attached the target. Now I know some of the professional critics here will say this doesn’t count for anything since it isn’t a 50 round group so let’s say it is a 50 rd group and the first 45 rounds missed the target completely due to ammo inconsistency.
This is what I do when determining if a centerfire load will work for me. I see no reason to do otherwise with rimfire. I still maintain that 50 rd groups are nonsense. If you can’t determine accuracy with a couple of 5 rd groups, something is wrong.
This particular 1720 will shoot sub-MOA consistently.

I’ve not had any issues with rimfire ammo quality once I determine which brand and bullet style shoots best in a particular rifle or pistol. I haven’t seen much variation in different lots but that’s just my experience.
In my experience, rimfires are no different than centerfires. Some shoot just about any ammo well while others can be very load specific.

Thank you Jaia for letting me know about the ignore feature in this forum. I didn’t know there was such a useful resource here. I may use it next time some low IQ Adam Henry irritates me.
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File Type: jpg 50 at 100.jpg (33.3 KB, 11 views)
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  #48  
Old 05-11-2019, 06:25 PM
jaia
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Very nice BG.
Not easy to do with the first 5 shots out of the box.
Better results than the majority of those produced by the ammo l was sold.

If you want to ignore me you can, but then I would miss out on the verbal parrying.

I'd still like to see y'er best 50 at 100, or 200 yards.
I've no qualms about being envious of quality results.

Gerald (gmd1950) has an Annie that produces some seriously good results also.
He posted three 10 shot groups at 100 that were extremely tight.
Pretty sure I annoyed him also.

But...... it's still not all day long.

I am so easily entertained.

By the way, not even a world class rifle can make cr*p ammo produce worthwhile results.
Just sayin'....

What do you mean I have to get in the last word? Not me.

You could shoot a 50 at 100, that might stop my nattering, maybe.

Last edited by jaia; 05-12-2019 at 09:05 AM.
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  #49  
Old 05-12-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Question for you...who manufactures 22wmr ammunition here in the U.S.?

Not sells...manufactures.

Hint, only two names on the list.

The rest of the U.S. brands are just relabeled boxes of cartridges made by those two companies.
Would you please elaborate on this jaia ? I am very interested.
Who are the two manufacturers ?
Which companies does each manufacturer produce for ?
Is the ammunition produced by each company the same ? Or does each client have their own specs to be followed ?
Thanks
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  #50  
Old 05-12-2019, 12:21 PM
jaia
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Winchester and CCI are the only two US makers of 22wmr and 17 hmr.
CCI is the only maker of 17hm2.
Verify this by finding the date code on the box.
It identifies the manufacturer.
Browning rimfire is relabeled Winchester.
Federal, Hornady, Remington and Norma magnum rimfire are all relabeled CCI.
The only differences are headstamps, labels and tip colors.
CCI components from the CCI plant.

Easily checked by contacting CCI customer service and talking with senior staff.
Don't take my word for it, make the call.
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  #51  
Old 05-12-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Gerald (gmd1950) has an Annie that produces some seriously good results also.
He posted three 10 shot groups at 100 that were extremely tight.
Pretty sure I annoyed him also.
That's a pretty safe bet.

Quote:
You could shoot a 50 at 100, that might stop my nattering, maybe.
That is a 50 shot group. Unfortunately, 45 of the shots must have missed the target completely. Must be the ammo quality, eh?
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  #52  
Old 05-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Federal, Hornady, Remington and Norma magnum rimfire are all relabeled CCI.
The only differences are headstamps, labels and tip colors.
CCI components from the CCI plant.
I did notice the bullets used in the 40 gr CCI HP and the 50 gr Federal bullets appear to be a very similar design aside from weight.

Is CCI making all the Federal .22LR now as well?
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  #53  
Old 05-12-2019, 01:04 PM
jaia
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If you look at the bullets, brass and styrene boxes, they are all CCI components.

Federal still has a plant producing low end 22 lr. Date code on the box is Fed.
The Fed match and ultra match have RWS date codes on the end flaps.
UltraMatch even has R50 in the small print.

Sure you don't want to impress me with 50 at 100?
At the very least it'd make me go chase better batches of 22wmr to try.
That might quiet me down for awhile. Maybe.

Last edited by jaia; 05-12-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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  #54  
Old 05-12-2019, 01:15 PM
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Well it's pouring rain here today. So grabbed my digital caliper and a box of CCI/Hornady Critical Defense to inspect.

I measured the total length and found the longest measured 1.3475" and the shortest measured 1.3320". 27 rounds fell in the 1.34+ range with the rest under 1.3395. The spread from shortest to longest was .0155".

I also did a slow roll test to see if I could see any wobble in the seated bullets. One round's roll speed varied speed indicating that it was not balanced, but I could not see the bullet wobble. Guessing this is probably something to do with the way the propellent settled.

I don't have a scale capable of weighing these rounds accurately. I should have one this week. In the meantime, I'm going to check a box of CCI MAXI-MAG 22WMR HPs.
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  #55  
Old 05-12-2019, 01:23 PM
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Low end .22 LR is a pretty accurate description of the Federal bulk junk in a bucket. The Black Pack stuff is better with far fewer dud rounds but I’m going to stick with CCI from now on.

Quote:
Sure you don't want to impress me with 50 at 100?
I may try 50 at 500 though.

Quote:
That might quiet me down for awhile. Maybe.
Not likely but now that I know the location of that ignore button . . . . . . . . .
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  #56  
Old 05-12-2019, 01:50 PM
Bradical
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The CCI MAXI-MAG HPs longest measured 1.3365", the shortest measured 1.3185". A .0180" spread. 41 of the round measured between 1.3295" and 1.3200". All the bullets rolled true with no obvious wobble.

So far, it looks to be pretty good quality control. All be it a very small sample.
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  #57  
Old 05-12-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Winchester and CCI are the only two US makers of 22wmr and 17 hmr.
CCI is the only maker of 17hm2.
Verify this by finding the date code on the box.
It identifies the manufacturer.
Browning rimfire is relabeled Winchester.
Federal, Hornady, Remington and Norma magnum rimfire are all relabeled CCI.
The only differences are headstamps, labels and tip colors.
CCI components from the CCI plant.

Easily checked by contacting CCI customer service and talking with senior staff.
Don't take my word for it, make the call.
Thank you for the information jaia. I had no idea that this is how thing's are. I was in a gun shop the other day and came across Remington .22wmr for the first time. I got a little excited about the opportunity to try something new. Then I remembered your post and thought to myself that I probably already have that ammo, just in different packaging, so I left it.
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  #58  
Old 05-12-2019, 02:37 PM
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I wish I didnt have to come home to check this thread whenever I see an attractive ammo 'deal' ; my memory aint what I remember it being.....
I know every gun is an entity unto itself and there is likely one out there that will shoot the available offerings like a match rifle....I just know there is , but in the ones Ive had there has not been one. And at this point Im not buying more to see if I can pull the Magic Ring out of the box of CrackerJacks.
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  #59  
Old 05-12-2019, 05:50 PM
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Well I finally buckled under the pressure of Yaia’s constant badgering to provide a 50 rd long range target and decided to acquiesce. I wanted to put the myth of .22 magnum ammo inconsistency to rest once and for all.

However, I’ve always felt that anything worth doing is worth doing well and, with that in mind, I thought if 50 rounds are good, wouldn’t 100 rounds be twice as good?
Continuing along those lines, I also felt a group shot at 500 yd might be five times better than one fired at 100 yd.
I decided to go for the gold.

This time I decided to use my 141M since it has a higher magnification scope mounted, a Shepherd Rogue 4-12x40.
Since I only had one box of my favorite CCI 40 gr HP .22 magnum ammo remaining, I used some odds and ends to make up the remaining 50 rounds. I used 25 rounds of CCI 40 gr FMJ, 15 rounds of CCI 30 gr HP and the remaining 10 rounds were PMC 40 gr soft point.

I used my Nikon rangefinder to set a target at 500 yards and, upon my return to the bench, I loaded the first magazine. There was a slight breeze approx 45 degrees to my rear so I allowed for a bit of wind drift and sent the first magazine downrange.
25 magazines later, I was ready to retrieve my target and measure group size.

I was amazed to discover that despite using four different types of ammo, it all shot equally well.
I’ve attached a photo of my target for Yaia’s approval.

I was so encouraged by this exercise, I plan to raise the bar even higher and conduct another test in the future consisting of 200 rounds at 700 yards. I plan to call this test The Yaia Challenge in honor of my mentor.
I considered shooting at a greater distance but decided to wait and see how my 700 yd shoot goes. After all, I wouldn’t want to set any unrealistic goals.

Thanks again for your encouragement, Yaia, I wouldn’t have attempted this without your urging.
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  #60  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:05 PM
jaia
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You are an evil evil man, and I'm proud to know you.
That was as good a retaliation as I have seen in a long, long, time.

Well played BG, worth every minute of hunt and peck needed for me to post here.

Bravo.....


Evil, yes you are, had my hopes up right up till the image loaded.
Snort! That was righteous.
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