reloading wadcutters? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-08-2019, 11:55 AM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
reloading wadcutters?



Log in to see fewer ads
I'm pretty well versed in Rifle Cartridge reloading; but new to Pistol straight walled cartridges. I am reloading .38 Special Wadcutters (Hornady hollow based wadcutter 148 grain) and i did not use a resizing die, but simply used a case expander die, to slightly open up the case mouth. I then seat the bullet flush with the case mouth, and than use a Lee Factory crimp die with a light crimp.

I have had a few cases that when seating the bullet, the bullet due to gravity will slightly sink down below the case mouth, maybe a 1/32 of an inch. I don't think I can go much smaller on the case mouth expander, without shaving lead. Should i worry about these rounds that have sunk down a little bit? I'm only using 2 grains of Trail Boss powder, so these are just light Target loads. I'm also shooting thru a .357 Magnum, so if pressure increases a bit, I don't think it's an issue. Should I simply bring the case expander up a hair to get less case mouth expansion?

any help appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:01 PM
flangster is online now

Join Date: 
Feb 2013
Posts: 
4,275
TPC Rating: 
100% (33)
I'm in exactly your boat. Just started loading .38 wadcutters in the past year for use in a couple of revolvers. I have been putting the fired cases through a sizing die for exactly the reason you mention. My newbie thinkingis: variations in seating depth will lead to variations in pressure at ignition, which in turn will result in larger groups on target. My S&W Model 14 in .38 Sp. likes 2.7 grains of Shooter's World pistol powder over a CCI-small pistol primer. I figure that, like with rifle cartridges, I want the completed rounds to be as uniform as possible.


So: I run through a sizing die, and then through the case-mouth expander. I gave into the temptation to just use the mouth expander once, but the cases had already expanded to the chamber wall dimensions.
__________________
============
n00by is now flangster on RFC -- still a newbie though
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-08-2019, 12:31 PM
Hawkeye57's Avatar
Hawkeye57 is online now

Join Date: 
Nov 2015
Location: 
central Pa.
Posts: 
1,631
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Are you shore that it isn't the Lee Factory crimp die that is causing the problem ?

The bushing inside the 38 / 357 die will under size your bullet, and while doing so could push it deeper. Pull one and measure it. I scraped the Lee Factory crimp die.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 04-08-2019, 02:46 PM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
Are you shore that it isn't the Lee Factory crimp die that is causing the problem ?

The bushing inside the 38 / 357 die will under size your bullet, and while doing so could push it deeper. Pull one and measure it. I scraped the Lee Factory crimp die.
Nope, just out of the separate bullet seating die, before the Lee even gets inserted, some of the cases are having the wadcutter droop down a little when getting ready to crimp them, in the now inserted die...so it's not the lee. By the way, I am using a Hornady seating Die to seat, but I'm not crimping with the Hornady at all, just seating the bullet, and than using the Lee.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2019, 04:41 PM
dons's Avatar
dons
US Air Force Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Sacramento Valley, CA
Posts: 
920
TPC Rating: 
100% (27)
Use the resizing die

Bullets so loose in the case that gravity seats them will also pull out under recoil, whether in the cylinder of a revolver or the magazine of a semiautomatic. You don't have to resize full length for wadcutter loads, but you should size at least a quarter inch or so.
38 wadcutters are pretty forgiving, you could probably seat and crimp in the same operation.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:05 PM
Hawkeye57's Avatar
Hawkeye57 is online now

Join Date: 
Nov 2015
Location: 
central Pa.
Posts: 
1,631
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I always resize first, then expand. By skipping the resizing, and then expanding you may not be getting enough tension on the brass. Take two fired cases, resize, and expand one. Then only expand one as you are doing. Measure the two, and see if they are the same diameter .

I mentioned the Lee Crimp die because it will under size a cast bullet. I got back into reloading about 6 years ago after a 30 year hiatus. When I did I started loading cast for 38 / 357 using the Lee Crimp die. My bore was .357.5, and I opened up two throats so they where all . 358. I was loading .358's, and getting more leading than I thought should be present. Then I came across some post on another forum somewhere about the Lee die undersizing cast bullets. I pulled a few, checked them, and sure enough they where now .356.5,using the Lee die. The crimp that I get with the RCBS Cowboy die isn't as pretty, but my bullets are the same size when they come out as they where when the went in, and the leading decreased.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:16 PM
so-so-shot
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2019
Location: 
Texas
Posts: 
17
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I full length size all of my 38ís and 357ís. I want a good bullet grip and crimp on my loads as it affects the powder burn rate and accuracy. I have reloaded some of the cases 12 times before having to discard. I have seated and crimped in the same operation, but usually get better accuracy when I do them separately.

I really like the Speer 148 gr. HBWC and Titegroup powder.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:31 PM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
You guys may be onto something...

I purposefully have not re-sized because others on this forum have stated that if you are using lead Bullets, you want them to be at least .001 larger than the groove diameter. Evidently most sizing Dies are set up for use with Copper projectiles, and will cause the cases to nominally be .357.

Since I'm using Lead wadcutters, the idea I am told is to go with .358 diameter lead, use fire-formed cases, and only use an expanding Die, followed by a seating die, than crimp. I am taking the once fired cases, only using a case mouth expander, than a seating die, followed by a Lee Factory crimp. Most of the cases are perfect, but a few when just moving the crimp Die upward, are dropping the wadcutter down a little, from Gravity.

I'm thinking of not using the Lee Factory Die, and just using the dies from the Hornady American series (full length sizing die, Roll Crimp Seater Die, Expander die) By the way, is the Hornady American series half decent, or poor?
thanx
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-08-2019, 06:39 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1 is online now

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
South Central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,803
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Use a lead bullet that is just barely an easy push through the cylinder chamber mouth, that may be .359 or even bigger. That may well solve most of the 'fall in the case' issues.
And for those few that may still be 'too small' just dont use those cases.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:09 PM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Use a lead bullet that is just barely an easy push through the cylinder chamber mouth, that may be .359 or even bigger. That may well solve most of the 'fall in the case' issues.
And for those few that may still be 'too small' just dont use those cases.
The .358 HBWC that I am using, needs a little bit of a push with a Pencil to push the rounds thru the Cylinder, I don't think I want to go any tighter, since i got to use a little bit of grunt to push it thru.... I'd like to Slug the Bore, but the Uberti is Brand new, and I don't want to cause any issues with the bore.

i thought of buying Pin gages, but they're pretty pricey for my seldom used needs, So I think the .358 diameter is good. I may try just using the Hornady set with both no re-sizing and also Full length re-sizing, and see the accuracy results. I only have Jacketed bullets thru this revolver so far, and want to see what Lead will do.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:28 PM
Samuel_Hoggson is online now
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2005
Posts: 
386
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
My 148 HBWCs are cast, so all brass goes through a sizing die. No shaving or accuracy concerns from that.

If you're determined to use the .358" soft swaged commercial bullets, I would definitely not tolerate telescoping. Assume you've tried different brands of brass, some are thicker than others. The lesser of evils here is a bit of sizing. You can spend $ and get a custom sizing die made.

But first try running the necks a very short distance into a standard sizer. T&E till you get just exactly enough tension. Just a bit of seating resistance past the bell. Assess accuracy and proceed from there.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:41 PM
Hawkeye57's Avatar
Hawkeye57 is online now

Join Date: 
Nov 2015
Location: 
central Pa.
Posts: 
1,631
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlock28 View Post
I'd like to Slug the Bore, but the Uberti is Brand new, and I don't want to cause any issues with the bore. .
If you want to slug the bore with no chance of harming it slug it with wax.
Get a 3/4" thick piece of hardwood. A piece of maple works good, the grain is tight. Drill a few 23/64" holes, and deburr them. 29/64" will give you a .359 slug. Get a box of Crayola brand crayons. While holding the crayon with a pair of needle nose melt the tip over the hole with a torch filling the hole. Leave sit over night, then punch out with a piece of wood dowel.

Don't use bargain brand crayons, or any other wax, you won't get the same consistency.
I have done it many times, and got the same results that I got using lead.

Here is an old thread where I used some . In post # 9 there is a picture of the slugs.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=653433
When your done laughing it of, give it a try. You may be surprised.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-08-2019, 07:58 PM
dbmjr1's Avatar
dbmjr1
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
Armorer to the Boogaloo
Posts: 
1,370
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
You need to full length re-size for proper case tension.

You need to ensure that your Hornady, seat die is clean, inside.

You need to adjust your crimp die, Lee?, to where it just takes the bell out, and returns the case to the original dimension before belling. You don't need any crimp. Neck tension does all of the work.

Measure them, before and after. Keep some notes.

Hollowbase wadcutters are very soft. Continue to use generous bell.
__________________
Don



Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Last edited by dbmjr1; 04-08-2019 at 08:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-08-2019, 08:08 PM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
If you want to slug the bore with no chance of harming it slug it with wax.
Get a 3/4" thick piece of hardwood. A piece of maple works good, the grain is tight. Drill a few 23/64" holes, and deburr them. 29/64" will give you a .359 slug. Get a box of Crayola brand crayons. While holding the crayon with a pair of needle nose melt the tip over the hole with a torch filling the hole. Leave sit over night, then punch out with a piece of wood dowel.

Don't use bargain brand crayons, or any other wax, you won't get the same consistency.
I have done it many times, and got the same results that I got using lead.

Here is an old thread where I used some . In post # 9 there is a picture of the slugs.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...d.php?t=653433
When your done laughing it of, give it a try. You may be surprised.
Great idea, I may go that route.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-08-2019, 08:17 PM
Flintlock28's Avatar
Flintlock28
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2011
Posts: 
2,221
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbmjr1 View Post
You need to full length re-size for proper case tension.

You need to ensure that your Hornady, seat die is clean, inside.

You need to adjust your crimp die, Lee?, to where it just takes the bell out, and returns the case to the original dimension before belling. You don't need any crimp. Neck tension does all of the work.

Measure them, before and after. Keep some notes.

Hollowbase wadcutters are very soft. Continue to use generous bell.
I will take this into account...

1) Full length re-size, and do what you wrote.

2) no re-sizing, use Hornady expander die, followed by Hornady seat/crimp combo Die.

3) no re-sizing, use Hornady expander Die, followed by Hornady seating Die (without crimping), followed by Lee factory crimp Die.

I think experimenting is the way to compare.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reloading Manual STBE Harris Reloading 27 03-11-2019 05:15 PM
.44 Caliber Reloading Dies mr alexander Pay It Forward 5 01-19-2018 10:07 AM
Reloading help please! grg Reloading 34 10-01-2017 09:42 PM
Budget reloading telmanmn Reloading 23 04-18-2017 08:43 AM
Dakota Model 10 .218 Bee: Rebarreling, Reloading, And Getting Closer To A Reality TEDDY BEAR RAT Rifle 5 11-30-2016 07:09 AM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x