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Old 03-11-2019, 12:03 PM
jambuster
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22 Hornet - What Powder do you use



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Been Loadin Hornets for the last 25 years . Like most I use a lot of Lil-Gun . About to load some new ammo for my Savage 40 and I am going with a 45 gr Speer soft point, Part No: 1023 . Thinking about trying AA1680 or H110 . Just a flavor change

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:11 PM
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I still use Lil'Gun with the 45 grain Hornady Hornet bullets. Still tops in velocity and brass last longer than when reloaded with 1680, H110/Win296 or 2400. I use 1680 for the 17 Hornet and brass life is about the same as in the 22 Hornet but the 17 gets neck sized and the 22 Hornet gets full length sized so they work in half a dozen rifle/pistols. Half the fun is in the experimentation.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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You'll find many who prefer Lil' Gun, for the above-cited reasons, but there are still plenty of shooters using 1680, like me. I never push the Hornet, so case life has never been an issue. A 40 gr. BT over 12.5 grains fired by a small pistol primer in fire-formed, neck-sized cases has always been my go-to recipe. That will not fit in most magazines, however, due to the long 40 gr. BT ogive. As much as the plastic-tipped bullets have been a game changer in the Hornet, I truly miss the old Nosler 45 gr. Solid Base Hornet bullet for magazine use. That was the most accurate bullet I've fired in a Hornet and would fit all hornet magazines.

TBR
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:08 PM
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I've still got a few pounds of Win 680 I use for a couple of guns but most of my hunting rounds are now loaded with Lil gun. As for target rounds try some IMR 4227 with a Rem 6-1/2 primer. I've tried the 296/H110 loads but got no satisfaction, and as for AA1680, it's good, but not as good as the old Win 680
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:53 AM
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IMR 4227 with bulk 55gr FMJ has always worked well for me in my Contenders.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:05 AM
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I tried a lot of powders in both my Hornets; 2400, H110, 4227, 1680, and LilGun.

LilGun is at the top of the heap, now my go-to.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:32 AM
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Another vote for Lil' Gun here I've tried all the rest and just got overly stressed brass and less accuracy. I admit that with Lil' Gun I don't cram it in--- 11.5 gr max with 40 gr. FB bullets and 6-1/2 primers. My Nosler brass lasts forever and only needs to be neck sized, even when used in different rifles.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:53 PM
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Hey KKook,

A bit of a hijack, but you may remember years ago, about the time I joined RFC, you helped me assess a Kimber of Oregon Super America the LGS had for sale here. It was a .22 Hornet, that I bought and ultimately sent down the road, but the rifle came with about 400 rounds of the original owner's handloads. I fired a number of those loads in the Kimber SA before it left the herd, and they shot exceedingly well. I didn't feel comfortable selling reloaded ammunition with the rifle, though, so I still have about 350 rounds left. It uses the late, great 45 gr Nosler Solid Base Hornet bullet with various powder charges, mostly 4227, all very well documented.

Anyway, here's the rub: I have tried to shoot that ammunition in five or six subsequent Hornet rifles. As I recollect, I tried them in a Walther KJS Target Rifle, a BSA Hunter/Regent, an Anschutz 1430, my scratch-built 80% Low Wall, and now, the ULA .22 Hornet I just bought, and none of the loads would even chamber in any of those rifles of widely differing manufacture. It wasn't even close to chambering on most. The rounds obviously chambered and shot very well in the Kimber, so, my question is, is it possible the Kimber Hornets of old have extra large chambers? I saved the ammo to use, but it appears I will have to pull all those bullets just to FL resize the brass to reuse it and the bullets.

Just curious, and, if anybody knows, I think it would be you.

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:09 PM
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I'd be willing to bet you've already figured this out but for what ever reason your old Kimber had an out sized chamber. The loads are neck sized and just wont fit any thing with a smaller chamber. Why they dont fit, longer shoulder length, fatter base, chamber's not square, wider shoulder diameter, or ?. Doesn't matter if it's a no go. Pull them and full length size them. Back to the beginning.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:35 PM
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Agreed. The Kimber chamber was obviously over-sized, but a difference large enough to disallow chambering by that much and in that many different rifles seems really excessive to me. I was certain the specs and tolerances were such that I would eventually find another Hornet in which I could use this ammunition. And, this Kimber was top of the line and early in production, when they were all supposed to be really well made...an over-sized reamer no one noticed??? If the rifle functioned and shot well, like this one did, I guess most people would never notice the difference, unless they tried what I did with the neck-sized only reloads in other Hornet rifles...something I'm betting KimberKook has done, hence, the question about Kimber Hornets in general.


TBR
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:29 PM
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I have three Hornets - a Brno KKM 465, a Savage 49, and a Walther KKJ. The Brno is virtually a safe queen but the other 2 are in regular use.

Of the three the Savage leads in accuracy. Downside, it’s a single shot.

Powders I have burned over the years are Vihtavuori N110, Lil'Gun , W296, H4227. Have also used a myriad of different primers but have settled on either CCI 500 or RWS 4033.

Also tried lots of different projectiles and now use almost exclusively Hornady 40gr VM which shoot extremely well in the Savage which, having no mag to restrict seating depth, lets me seat out close to the lands.

As far as my experience with powders go if velocity is king (and virtually no chance of pressure issues) I have found Lil’Gun is the one but for accuracy I have found the VVN110 to be tops. Less velocity than can be achieved by Lil’Gun but far better ES and accuracy. YMMD.

Love my Hornets
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEDDY BEAR RAT View Post
Hey KKook,

A bit of a hijack, but you may remember years ago, about the time I joined RFC, you helped me assess a Kimber of Oregon Super America the LGS had for sale here. It was a .22 Hornet, that I bought and ultimately sent down the road, but the rifle came with about 400 rounds of the original owner's handloads. I fired a number of those loads in the Kimber SA before it left the herd, and they shot exceedingly well. I didn't feel comfortable selling reloaded ammunition with the rifle, though, so I still have about 350 rounds left. It uses the late, great 45 gr Nosler Solid Base Hornet bullet with various powder charges, mostly 4227, all very well documented.

Anyway, here's the rub: I have tried to shoot that ammunition in five or six subsequent Hornet rifles. As I recollect, I tried them in a Walther KJS Target Rifle, a BSA Hunter/Regent, an Anschutz 1430, my scratch-built 80% Low Wall, and now, the ULA .22 Hornet I just bought, and none of the loads would even chamber in any of those rifles of widely differing manufacture. It wasn't even close to chambering on most. The rounds obviously chambered and shot very well in the Kimber, so, my question is, is it possible the Kimber Hornets of old have extra large chambers? I saved the ammo to use, but it appears I will have to pull all those bullets just to FL resize the brass to reuse it and the bullets.

Just curious, and, if anybody knows, I think it would be you.

Thanks
TBR,
All my hornets have been fire formed in an original KoO 82 S-Series. I have shared them, neck-sized only, with a friend who shoots them in a Browning 1885, Ruger #1, two TCs, an Encore and Contender, and a CZ-527 FS. I will admit that before using the load I mentioned above (Nosler brass, LG powder, 40 gr FB BT Sierra and Nosler bullets, Rem 6-1/2 primers) I would eventually experience after three or four firings, brass stretch with Remington brass, even nickel ones. If I came across a loaded cartridge that didn't chamber, I would use a Redding "Body Die" to resize to the same specs one would get with a FL die. So, this is a long way to say that my KoO seems to have a very standard chamber. It's quite possible that KoO wasn't always perfect. It was a strange company after all

I'd be happy to loan you my body die and you could use it to resize those rounds without having to break them down. Just email or PM me with your mailing address. --- Tom
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:05 PM
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For what its worth my thoughts on the Hornet are as follows. Most people think Hornets wont shoot. And most manufactures tend to take a rather cavalier approach to there rifles chambered in the Hornet round. Ammo and component manufactures also have a rather lax attitude to this cartridge. However if given properly manufactured and prepared brass, a concentric bullet and a properly head spaced rifle with a good bore it does surprisingly well. Manufactures seem to build to our expectations and since everyone knows the Hornet isn't an accurate cartridge they dont feel any pressure to pay attention to details. The first factory Hornet ammo that ever impressed me was some RWS that was given to me. Hornady brought out there 35 grain V Max ammo and its pretty good stuff but it runs out of steam around 100 to 120 yards out. The 40 grain plastic tip bullet are what opened peoples eyes in reguards to the Hornet. Forty grains is about perfect weight for the Hornet, high BC's, attention to detail so there accurate a little long but that can be dealt with. Kimber made some quality rifles. They made them in the 1980's though. So if Kimber could initially make there Hornet chamber reamer to maximum SAAMI dimensions and over the reamers use-sharpen-use-sharpen-use life time get maybe two more uses out of this reamer before the reamer had to be tossed... well its only a Hornet.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 59801 View Post
So if Kimber could initially make there Hornet chamber reamer to maximum SAAMI dimensions and over the reamers use-sharpen-use-sharpen-use life time get maybe two more uses out of this reamer before the reamer had to be tossed... well its only a Hornet.
This thought had also occurred to me. I used to buy Clymer reamers almost exclusively until I realized many of my chambers cut with those reamers were on the large size. When I inquired about it, Clymer told me their reamers are ground on the larger side of the SAAMI spec, so that a gunsmith could regrind, or have them reground, to extend tool life. Well, I understand and appreciate that, but Geez Louise, I'm a hobbiest gunsmith and have never needed to regrind a reamer! And, as a very astute rep for PTG once told me, "Our reamers are made to cut a correct chamber from the start." How can one argue with that? So, it was PTG and some others ever since.

Having said that, even a chamber cut on the very large side of the SAAMI spec would probably not be as over-sized as that Kimber was. So I dunno.

KKook,
I'll be PMing you soon. I may take you up on your kind offer. Never used a body die on live rounds...please expand.

TBR
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEDDY BEAR RAT View Post
...
KKook,
I'll be PMing you soon. I may take you up on your kind offer. Never used a body die on live rounds...please expand.

TBR
TBR, no worries about using on loaded cartridges. The body die just hugs the sides of the case and isn't at all near the primer nor head of the cartridge. I admit that the first time I tried it I was skeptical, but when I needed to adjust some loaded rounds fire-formed to a Savage 25 I owned briefly, I did about 150 without any issues whatsoever. A friend has purchased one of these body dies and has been successful using it as well. It's the right tool for the job. -- KoOk
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