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  #1  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:54 PM
CBennett21

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RugerMkIV Competition+ Volquartsen



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Ok id been turned onto this possibility by a friend. I was looking at a accurate(accurate enough to if I can do my part be able to shoot rimfire bullseye with and be able to hand with S&W 41's and or Scorpions etc...at least not lose because ive not got enough gun if I ever get that good...it would be because i didnt do my part) .22 LR pistol as a retirement gift to myself. I was looking at S&W 41's newer models tapped for a red dot, Scorpions, and now the possibility of a Ruger MkIV Competition with a Volquartsen(or similar open to suggestions) accurizing kit/trigger etc..

Would that combo be able to run with Scorpion or S&W 41 if I could do my part?? Gun will have a red dot on it of some type..
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:32 AM
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Instead of building up a MK IV I would opt for a Scorpion. JMHO.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:12 PM
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Instead of building up a MK IV I would opt for a Scorpion. JMHO.
Nothing wrong with that thats why I was asking. im more of a rifle guy and centerfire pistol guy..Im not really up on Rimfire pistols or revolvers so I figured before I made a poor choice id ask around I was thinking of getting a Henry Frontier 24" octagon barrel rifle OR a Marlin 39 for cowboy rimfire(one of the few local rimfire competitions they have here) and a pistol for rimfire bullseye...I was trying to spend $1500 but no more on initial purchase...

So unless I get a good used deal for what I want to spend it looks like the S&W 41 or scorpion and the henry....Now if I could get a real good deal OR like id asked the Competition would work then I may be able to swing the Marlin and a Competition with a trigger improvement...

thats why im asking
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2018, 01:19 AM
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Get the Competition model and be happy with it. It will give you great accuracy. Spend your extra money on decent ammo.

A Volquartsen Accurizing Kit is a must. I got my trigger pull down to 2 lbs. with it.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2018, 01:08 PM
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Get the Competition model and be happy with it. It will give you great accuracy. Spend your extra money on decent ammo.

A Volquartsen Accurizing Kit is a must. I got my trigger pull down to 2 lbs. with it.

All I was trying to figure out is if you had someone with the same skills aka same good shooter shooting the Scorpion,S&W 41,and the competition model with a trigger job using a ammo that all the guns liked..aka all things the person,ammo shooting are equal that they would all pretty much shoot the same...give you the same score
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:02 PM
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I guess what I would say is that, from a rest --not in competition -- my most accurate Rugers are the equal of my Model 41, or my LLV (the barreled-only receiver part of the Scorpion. But not all my Rugers shoot as well as those two other pistols. So part of what you are paying for with the premium choices is the right to demand that the pistol does better, IMHO. What you choose depends in part on how much of a gambler you are.

Here's an LLV (Scorpion) upper set of groups at 15 y with Federal Automatch:



Here's a recent set at the same distance with a new Mk IV Standard:



Both pistols show promise, but the LLV (Scorpion) groups are a little bit tighter. Offhand, I am not nearly as good a shot, though. My poor technique easily swamps the differences between the two pistols. And only you can tell whether the extra bucks for a Scorpion are worth it.

I will say one thing: for me, the aiming system is much more important than the brand of pistol. With an AT3 Tactical red dot (tube type), any of my Rugers can outshoot my Model 41or any VQ pistol with iron sights -- whether offhand or rested, so you might want to consider that when spending your hard-earned dough.
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by flangster View Post
I guess what I would say is that, from a rest --not in competition -- my most accurate Rugers are the equal of my Model 41, or my LLV (the barreled-only receiver part of the Scorpion. But not all my Rugers shoot as well as those two other pistols. So part of what you are paying for with the premium choices is the right to demand that the pistol does better, IMHO. What you choose depends in part on how much of a gambler you are.

Here's an LLV (Scorpion) upper set of groups at 15 y with Federal Automatch:



Here's a recent set at the same distance with a new Mk IV Standard:



Both pistols show promise, but the LLV (Scorpion) groups are a little bit tighter. Offhand, I am not nearly as good a shot, though. My poor technique easily swamps the differences between the two pistols. And only you can tell whether the extra bucks for a Scorpion are worth it.

I will say one thing: for me, the aiming system is much more important than the brand of pistol. With an AT3 Tactical red dot (tube type), any of my Rugers can outshoot my Model 41or any VQ pistol with iron sights -- whether offhand or rested, so you might want to consider that when spending your hard-earned dough.
I have and it will have a red dot of some sort on it...when I get his I will be 50 and im close to needing glasses now though ive never wore them in my entire life...over the last 3-4 years ive been using reading glasses and I know that my dominant eye(right) is weaker than my left, Well and the one .22 LR Pistol I DO own is a lowly S&W 22A but that has a red dot on it and thats what got my wide and kid into shooting..they both loved shooting that with a red dot...so this one will wear one also..cant keep magazines loaded quick enough with that 22A

That was also why I know with the S&W 41 id be considering one thats newer tapped/drilled for mounts already OR a older one that has the original barrel and a newer tapped one..id not want to get a older one and destroy the value to tap it for mounts...I also dont want the extra expense of getting another separate barrel unless it cane with one already.

Id seen the Competition for $500ish + a trigger job/kit $150??

Honestly I cant even tell you if the Competition for a red dot gun would be any more effective than the Target or Hunter even heck even a 22/45 with a Volquartsen upper.....because with the red dot the extra barrel length doesnt really matter from what ive read thats just for open sights i guess... and this WILL have a red dot on it...even if I have to take the one off my 22A .

Last edited by CBennett21; 12-14-2018 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:11 PM
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My sense is that, except for the Mk II Gov't Targets, you are more or less getting the same barrel reaming and chambering from all the Ruger Mk pistols. My sense is that this is true regardless of the age or series of the pistol (e.g. Mk II, Mk IV . . . changes to the internals, but not, fundamentally, the barrels. Why one might prefer a Target vs. Hunter vs. Standard configuration really has to do with balance, sight radius (not important if you are using a red dot), grips and in some cases frame design and material). I am not sure where I picked up this sense of the A vs. B on the barrels though, so if there is a Ruger historian on RFC, I'm sure someone will be along to set me straight.

I have two Mk II Competition Slabsides that are just lights-out accurate. Also a Govt. Target that will do this at 50 yards:



I don't really see any difference in accuracy, within my limits, between the heavy barreled Ruger's and the tapered barreled ones. I like how the tapered barrels point better off-hand, but this is a pretty personal preference. Like others here I have used the VQ trigger/sear kits with great success. I do have Mk II's with the original triggers, which seemed fine to me.

If I was going to buy just one, I'd give the Mk III a serious look, and upgrade as needed. The Mk IV single-button take down feature is nice, but I never found the take down of the older pistols that big a deal. Once again, your mileage may vary, but you could save a couple of bucks on a used version with the more complicated take-down and upgrade the internals as you desired. With the older pistols, you can replace just the sear, or just the hammer and sear. With the Mk IV, you have to go for the whole kit (more expensive). The Mk III's came D&T'd for a scope base. The Mk II's not so much.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:51 PM
CBennett21

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Originally Posted by flangster View Post
My sense is that, except for the Mk II Gov't Targets, you are more or less getting the same barrel reaming and chambering from all the Ruger Mk pistols. My sense is that this is true regardless of the age or series of the pistol (e.g. Mk II, Mk IV . . . changes to the internals, but not, fundamentally, the barrels. Why one might prefer a Target vs. Hunter vs. Standard configuration really has to do with balance, sight radius (not important if you are using a red dot), grips and in some cases frame design and material). I am not sure where I picked up this sense of the A vs. B on the barrels though, so if there is a Ruger historian on RFC, I'm sure someone will be along to set me straight.

I have two Mk II Competition Slabsides that are just lights-out accurate. Also a Govt. Target that will do this at 50 yards:



I don't really see any difference in accuracy, within my limits, between the heavy barreled Ruger's and the tapered barreled ones. I like how the tapered barrels point better off-hand, but this is a pretty personal preference. Like others here I have used the VQ trigger/sear kits with great success. I do have Mk II's with the original triggers, which seemed fine to me.

If I was going to buy just one, I'd give the Mk III a serious look, and upgrade as needed. The Mk IV single-button take down feature is nice, but I never found the take down of the older pistols that big a deal. Once again, your mileage may vary, but you could save a couple of bucks on a used version with the more complicated take-down and upgrade the internals as you desired. With the older pistols, you can replace just the sear, or just the hammer and sear. With the Mk IV, you have to go for the whole kit (more expensive). The Mk III's came D&T'd for a scope base. The Mk II's not so much.
That was my main reason for the Mk IV I have a friend with a older MkII and a Mk III I dont know if he just got unlucky or what..but we have hung out after a shooting session and cleaned guns and every time I laugh when he has to break out a mallet...you(IMO of course) should never need a mallet(or really tools in my opinion) to take down a gun. I hate complicated takedown...I love the Buckmark its stock got a better trigger than a Ruger(again IMO) BUT its takedown and tools...not really a fan.

That said if I found a already modified one for a good price I may bite, thanks!

Last edited by CBennett21; 12-15-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2018, 11:00 PM
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If you do extensive research on these forums, you will find shooters that prefer the Scorpion over the S&W model 41. They say that the 41 doesn't hold up as well after many thousands of rounds.

If you don't want the mark III based VQ Scorpion, you can do what I did.

My personal Frankenruger consists of a VQ LLV-4 (Mark IV) 6 in barrel with a Leupold DPP red dot sight. I have a Ruger black aluminum mark IV lower to match the color and light weight of the VQ upper; and I installed the full VQ trigger upgrade kit. Mine has the VQ single port compensator installed. With a good rest or my Atlas bipod attached to the rail, it shoots 1 to 1.25 in groups at 50 yards with cheap CCI standard velocity. I added a VQ Competition bolt afterwards.

My buddy bought an LLV-4 after he saw what mine could do. He's also very pleased.
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  #11  
Old 12-16-2018, 04:06 PM
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If you do extensive research on these forums, you will find shooters that prefer the Scorpion over the S&W model 41. They say that the 41 doesn't hold up as well after many thousands of rounds.

If you don't want the mark III based VQ Scorpion, you can do what I did.

My personal Frankenruger consists of a VQ LLV-4 (Mark IV) 6 in barrel with a Leupold DPP red dot sight. I have a Ruger black aluminum mark IV lower to match the color and light weight of the VQ upper; and I installed the full VQ trigger upgrade kit. Mine has the VQ single port compensator installed. With a good rest or my Atlas bipod attached to the rail, it shoots 1 to 1.25 in groups at 50 yards with cheap CCI standard velocity. I added a VQ Competition bolt afterwards.

My buddy bought an LLV-4 after he saw what mine could do. He's also very pleased.
yeah I just wasnt sure if these "regular" or Hunter/Target/Competition ones what they did with the barrels/to them..etc..wasnt sure if they would really need a barrel upgrade or not.. now if im running a red dot, not running plates just going for accuracy would the 4.5-5" barrel be better???
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:10 PM
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I've owned (several) of all models discussed at some point. I no longer compete but will pass on what I've learned from my parade of guns when I did.
1) Don't spend 4 figures on ANY gun based on recommendations. You need to shoot/try one to see if it works for YOU. Just because a gun is expensive, it does not mean you will be able to shoot it well.
2) a factory MK II/III ( and likely MK IV) with a trigger job and red dot will allow you to shoot in the top of your league/team IF the gun fits you and you do your part. I used to see Rugers beat 41's, Bennellies, Walthers, ( even Pardini's) every week when in the right hands. They are capable of shooting in the 280/300 with decent ammo and lots of practice.
3) At some point, a Ruger target model may hold you back. Think about upgrading then and only then. You'll know allot more about what works for you (or not) by then.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:37 PM
C6Vern
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Originally Posted by CBennett21 View Post
yeah I just wasnt sure if these "regular" or Hunter/Target/Competition ones what they did with the barrels/to them..etc..wasnt sure if they would really need a barrel upgrade or not.. now if im running a red dot, not running plates just going for accuracy would the 4.5-5" barrel be better???
The Hunter/Target/Comp barrels are all very accurate with differences in weight and sight radius. All three shoot better that the Lite, which is less accurate but plenty good for steel plates.

In my personal experience, I could do well with my Mark IV target and I had already installed the VQ trigger kit. I came across a Blemish VQ 6" threaded LLV-4 Upper for only $289. Before I would not do much 50 yard shooting at a range in the woods ... now I will often put clays and pieces of clays to shoot at 50 yards with my red dot and a good rest. It's about enjoyment for me; I much prefer this to my Mk IV target barrel.

I mostly run the 6" barrel and sometimes will attach my Atlas bipod to the rail when I want tiny groups or to hit 100 yard clays. My 4.5" VQ is mainly for fun as a host for a can. Some people prefer the 4.5" over the 6".

Tacoma gave some solid advice about purchasing.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:27 PM
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Thanks guys, just didnt know if stock barrels in these were good enough or if that was the weak link. Thanks seems its just the trigger and shooter rest is good.

Last edited by CBennett; 12-18-2018 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 08:05 PM
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Tacoma is on point with his advice. My limited experience is the same.
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