I am soooo green with air pistols!!!!!!!!!!!! - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-01-2018, 10:41 PM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I am soooo green with air pistols!!!!!!!!!!!!



Log in to see fewer ads
Some months back I bought a Beeman .177 P3 handgun and simply have not fallen in love with it.

Part of that is due to it's almost total lack of power.

I read about the CO2 powder handguns, but I want to shoot when I want to shoot and not having a CO2 cylinder leaking away to nothing when the piece is not being used.

I can live with the single cock, but would like comments and suggestions as the P3 is so little used as to be almost new.

Anything out there that can keep my hand and eye in tone during the off season with enough power to keep the pellets from bouncing back at me from the plywood target backing?

Accuracy seems fine with the P3.

I like to shoot 50' slow/times/rapid competition with a .22 rim fire, but the P3 doesn't seem to be filling the bill for off season practice.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:55 AM
farrlarr's Avatar
farrlarr

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Pocatello, Idaho
Posts: 
830
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I don't know what CO2 guns you have experienced but I have never had a Crosman 2240 or 357 leak over the course of several months. In fact I have one 2240 that I haven't shot in almost a year; just picked it up, cocked it, pulled the trigger and there was still gas in it. One key is to always put a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil or automatic transmission fluid on the tip of the CO2 cartridge; keeps seals soft so leakage does not occur.

You may also want to consider a Crosman 1377 or 1322, multi pump pistols so you can control power by the number of pumps.

I would also suggest that you not mount your targets directly on the backing. Use a cardboard box filled with rags/newspapers/magazines, with the plywood backing as a final stop even though you will seldom have pellets penetrate that far. Or you could use any sort of container filled with rubber mulch or build a duct seal pellet trap (all of these options have been addressed many time in airgun forums, or you can simply Google them).
__________________
Larry in Idaho

"A man has to know his limitations."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:35 AM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Farrlarr,

As I attempted to indicate in my opening post, I have little, like almost NONE, experience with air or CO2 powdered handguns.

I do know that I did shoot a pump type one time and found the piece to bare little resemblance to a well balanced handgun such as those I'm used to.

But your comments on the CO2 gas loss is encouraging as I'd like to be able to walk into the shop, pick up the handgun and fire off a few shots knowing that I can come back the next day or two weeks or months later and still have CO2 available without needing to ALWAYS replace the gas cartridge.

So, THANKS, your already helping in my education.

I'm neither rich or in air gun competition so would not be buying the high end pieces, but I also don't like junk so would be looking at pieces in the mid price range.

Looks like I need to continue to do more research and likely look for a new home for this almost new Beeman

Thanks,

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:35 PM
farrlarr's Avatar
farrlarr

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Pocatello, Idaho
Posts: 
830
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
For CO2 pistols, a Crosman 2240 goes for $62.99 at Pyramyd Air (the best source for airguns and supplies that I know) and a Vigilante (the current model of the 357) goes for $49.99. I don't know if that fits your definition of mid-price range or not. However, when you visit their air pistol page, you will find a wide variety of pistols with all sorts of power systems and all prices. They will all have good pictures so you see whether they come anywhere close to to the style and conformation you desire, and the vast majority of them have reviews from a large number of users so you can estimate quality and accuracy.

https://www.pyramydair.com/air-pistols

There are also a large number of BB pistols on the market, also available from Pyramyd Air, but I suggest that you not consider them at this point because (1) they are not as accurate as pellet pistols, and (2) there are real problems with the BBs ricocheting from anything that is fairly solid (you will not have that problem with pellets). Many of the BB pistols are modeled directly on powder burner pistols and have good weight and balance so you may want to think about them later but I just wouldn't recommend them now. There certainly are CO2 pistols that resemble powder burners.

Pyramyd Air is also an excellent source for pellets. They carry a very wide variety of pellets and sell them on a 4-for-3 deal; that is, when you order 4 tins of pellets, the cheapest tin is free. They also pack pellets very well for shipping so you know they are going to arrive in great condition.

Please note that I have absolutely no connection with Pyramyd Air, just a very satisfied customer.

If you have additional questions, do not hesitate to post them or PM me directly.
__________________
Larry in Idaho

"A man has to know his limitations."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:32 PM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Thanks Larry,

I was on the Pyramyd Air web site this afternoon, and must admit to being a bit confused.

I mentioned the concern about need to use a CO2 cylinder or losing/wasting it and the guy that replied said something about he didn't recommend leaving a cylinder in place for more then a VERY short time after shooting.

Being great in the lack of knowledge in this department, I expected something to confirm your earlier statement and got the exact opposite.

Hmmmmmmmm?

I see you live in Idaho, and only wish we lived close enough to allow for me to get hands on knowledge from a real life user of CO2 pistols.

I did see a couple of pistols that rang my barrel, one a Sig Sauer and the other a Walther.

The Walther I was looking at looked like a copy of my Walther P99 - .40 S&W Which would be a PLUS.

Later,

CDOC
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:56 PM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Larry,

It was Matthew Z. that replied to me from Pyramyd Air.

I just went back and looked at his comments.

He said, they recommend not leaving the CO2 cylinder in the gun longer then 10min after shooting is completed to reduce damage.

Hmmmmmmm! seems no one would want or use CO2 air guns if that were in fact true.

Frankly am I going to put in a cylinder, shoot a few shots - something less then the total capacity of the CO2 and take the cylinder out to bleed off. Not likely!

But then I can't always see my self shooting the 80 - 90 shots per cylinder that they suggest the capacity to be.

This just not see to pencil out and hard to believe that there would be much of a market for the CO2 handguns if that were true.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-03-2018, 12:50 AM
farrlarr's Avatar
farrlarr

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Pocatello, Idaho
Posts: 
830
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Darrell,

I have never heard/seen anyone recommend removing a CO2 cartridge within 10 minutes of shooting even after having been on a couple of airgun forums (Gateway to Airguns and Crosman Air Pistol Owners Forum, both of which you might want to check) for more than 8 years. In fact, there have been a number of threads discussing storage of pistols with cartridges in them. I agree that having to remove the cartridge within a short time and losing the remaining gas would certainly be an argument against buying the pistols. However, CO2 pistols are very popular, with the 2240 being among the top selling pistols at Pyramyd Air (the world's largest airgun retailer) for many years.

I just checked the 2240 Owner's Manual and it does say:

Do not store your airgun with a CO2 cartridge in it. If you know you will not be using your airgun for an extended period of time, empty the CO2 cartridge and remove it from the airgun.

I believe the most important part of those statements is "extended period of time" rather than the first sentence. Again, there have been many discussions about how long a CO2 gun can be stored with a partially discharged cartridge in it and the consensus is always that it is at least several months unless the seals have been damaged or something else is wrong with the gun, in which case the cartridge usually vents completely as soon as it is pierced.

Living in Idaho is great except for the fact that, like most Western states, it is a long way between most places. Deary to Pocatello at 528 miles certainly fits that description.
__________________
Larry in Idaho

"A man has to know his limitations."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-03-2018, 02:16 AM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Thanks Larry,

You are being most helpful!

CDOC
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:14 AM
LtCrunch's Avatar
LtCrunch is online now
US Marines NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Oct 2015
Location: 
Colorado
Posts: 
1,695
TPC Rating: 
100% (5)
Hi Darrell, I agree with everything Larry told you but let me throw a few more ideas at you.

Single stroke pneumatics are indeed wimpy but they're also consistant which translates into accuracy. At 10 meters they're perfect for basement or garage hand gunning practice. The power level is moot for punching paper. Don't shoot at bare plywood though, get a bullet trap https://shop.opticsplanet.com/champi...MaApcLEALw_wcB

CO2 air pistols are fun too but not as accurate, at least in the lower end units because each shot is getting a little less gas. Here's a chronograph string Pyramyd recorded on the P226: Shot 1: 427.40 fps Shot 2: 433.41 fps Shot 3: 415.43 fps Shot 4: 406.79 fps Shot 5: 395.83 fps Shot 6: 388.64 fps Shot 7: 385.07 fps Shot 8: 379.88 fps High: 433.41 Low: 379.88 Average: 404.05 fps

So if you want to shoot tight groups and don't mind cocking the piece for every shot the single stroke wins. If you want ease of operation and multi-shot ability then CO2 wins with the caveats of reduced accuracy and increased operating cost.

This being an "Enablers R US" site, I'd suggest getting both AND the bullet trap.

Cheers,

Frank
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-03-2018, 12:51 PM
Darrell Davis
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Feb 2004
Location: 
Deary, Idaho
Posts: 
626
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Thanks again folks!

I guess the thing about the back stop partly comes from the Air rifle I had for awhile. A .22 side cocker it had plenty of power to shoot through the target and into the plywood backing.

So, when I all of a sudden start getting the smaller pellets bounced back at me from the same indoor range as used with the rifle, I'm not only surprised, but not happy.

Although the air rifle was quite accurate, I sold it due to it being so heavy and to this point have not bought another rifle.

I stayed away from the under barrel cocker handguns due to the looks and balance, so that and the positive reports for the Beeman .177 P3 "magnum" is the reason I went that direction.

Guess I need to build a bullet trap.

If I did buy a CO2 handgun, it would NOT be one of the low end selections, but rather one in the mid hundred too two hundred range.

Meanwhile, I am reading and digesting the info you kind folk are sending my way.

It would be nice if what ever I had would have a similar feel to the RUGER Slab Side .22 that I use for the 50' slow/timed/rapid comperition.

Thanks,

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-04-2018, 12:11 AM
farrlarr's Avatar
farrlarr

Join Date: 
Jul 2010
Location: 
Pocatello, Idaho
Posts: 
830
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Darrell,

One last point about C02 guns, about which you may already be aware but I will mention it anyway. CO2 conversion from liquid to gas is temperature dependent. Shooting is fine between about 40 degrees and 85-90 degrees but below 40 will result in a dramatic drop in pressure and, therefore, velocity. You will actually see a pressure/velocity drop above 40 but it becomes problematic below 40. Above 85-90 degrees, the pressure can get high enough to lock up the valve so shooting becomes impossible. Bottom line, I hope you have a place to shoot indoors so you can control the temperature. Also note that shooting rapidly will result in considerable cooling of the gun and a drop in pressure.

Here is a link to a thread on GTA about CO2 pressures that will provide a lot of useful information.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA...4169#msg184169
__________________
Larry in Idaho

"A man has to know his limitations."

Last edited by farrlarr; 11-04-2018 at 12:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-04-2018, 08:01 AM
Bolero's Avatar
Bolero
US Air Force Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
SE Lower Michigan
Posts: 
1,717
TPC Rating: 
98% (43)
Airgun Pistols...

Old Coot Darrell...I regularly shoot Airgun pistols in my garage & basement, always at 7 yds and into an inexpensive steel Trap under $30.00...
I shoot CO2 only, I have a Sig M17 P320 ASP with UTG Laser, a Sig P226 X Five ASP also with UTG Laser, A Dan Wesson 517 (357 Revolver) 2 1/2 barrel with RMR Clone Red Dot... A Crosman Vigilanti….all are .177 Pellet/BB & I shoot the Pellets...All purchased thru Pyramyd Air...

To each his own but I look for Accuracy and Multi shot Magazines & I highly recommend almost any of the Sig Sauers, high quality, accurate, identical to the Center Fires which I also shoot.

I no longer shoot competition but demand Accuracy, CO2 and ease of loading... I rarely expect more than 40 shots from a CO2 capsule, cheap at .50 cents each.


Any questions please ask or email me at [email protected]

How much you asking for the P3 ?

Bolero aka Chuck

Last edited by Bolero; 11-04-2018 at 08:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-04-2018, 09:49 AM
mparker
US Air Force Veteran

Join Date: 
Jun 2012
Location: 
Springfield & Cape Charles, VA
Posts: 
972
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
A few things I know and think I know about pellet pistols.

1) If you shoot 50' rimfire target pistols then, for scale, you should shoot 10 meter air pistols.

2) Replica and lookalike pistols that resemble high caliber powder burners are not very good at 10 meters if accuracy is the primary goal. As an example the Walther CP88 competition is sold by dealers as a competition air pistol. It isn't nearly good enough. OTOH, if all you require is a Minute Of Beer Can accuracy then there are lots of break barrel and CO2 pistols out there.

3) Most air pistols intended for target shooting do not have adequate power for longer range plinking or hunting.

4) For power/performance in a 10 meter pistol a Single Stroke Pneumatic (SSP) or CO2 .177 caliber is best for a starter system.

5) The best SSPs currently available new are the Beeman P17, Weihrauch HW40 (P3), Gamo Compact, Air Venturi V10, FAS 6004, and Baikal M46M. Used SSPs from Hammerli, FWB, and other high end makers appear occasionally.

6) For serious target shooting .177 has the largest range of pellets available. There are good .22 pellets available but the selection is much more limited and, if competition is your goal, .177 is required by ISSF and NRA. I can't speak to Field Target competition. BBs are not a player at this level.

7) CO2 pistols that can provide a satisfying experience at a good price? ... any of the 22XX or 23XX series pistols from Crosman. I'm a fan of the 2300KT. Get one with a Lothar Walther barrel if you can. If you want to shoot at 50' then one of these would be a good choice. Lots of third party support for these too.

8) Research Pre-Charged Pneumatic (PCP) pistols to see if your interest and your budget might lean toward one. Generally expensive and they require accessories for filling the reservoirs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-04-2018, 05:04 PM
T191032's Avatar
T191032

Join Date: 
Sep 2004
Location: 
VA
Posts: 
3,445
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Regarding the Beeman P-3 and practice :

A suitable pellet trap - large enough to contain the pellets (YouTube, the Internet and your imagination are your friend here).

The Beeman is a nice single-stroke air pistol.



Bolero wrote :

I no longer shoot competition but demand Accuracy, CO2 and ease of loading... I rarely expect more than 40 shots from a CO2 capsule, cheap at .50 cents each.


In a Custom Shop 2300 .177, with the addition of aftermarket power adjuster, I've gotten 70 shots on a good day.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-05-2018, 07:50 AM
Bolero's Avatar
Bolero
US Air Force Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2010
Location: 
SE Lower Michigan
Posts: 
1,717
TPC Rating: 
98% (43)
CO2

Nice to hear from you, 70 shots from a CO2 is awesome....I'm just spoiled I guess...
I can get at least 60 shots but the power is fading fast at that point...

I've looked at the Crosman 2300T, might buy one???

Compared to the 2300S with the Lothar/Walther barrel and excellent Target sights it is probably a better choice for 10 Meter shooting but I hear and have read that the 2300T is just as accurate and $100 cheaper....

Chuck
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x