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  #1  
Old 12-31-2016, 04:47 PM
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SSH barrel clarification?



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Since I like longer barrels for the shooting I do most often I've been looking at running boar and heavy taper style. Running boar obviously meets SSH rules and I noticed GM says their 19" heavy taper is .760 (http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/19-blue...-sporter-22lr/) at the muzzle. It seems this meets the >.750" guideline but then I found a thread where it was decided since GM heavy taper barrels are legal in SS they can't be legal in SSH. So as I understand this any barrel measuring .751 or greater at the muzzle is fine unless it's a GM heavy taper measuring up to and over .760 in some cases apparently?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=628665

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...=658641&page=2

Just trying to stay between the lines although it seems my preferences run right on the lines..

thanks
Jeff
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:07 PM
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I look at it like it would be up to the guy running that particular game. I mean, I don't have a problem with it because I have shot Pugsley in both SSH and Ultimate. Also, I don't feel that the HT barrels give an advantage, I believe that it is harder to shoot groups with them vs a bull barrel. So if someone wants to use a SS legal rifle to shoot a ssh game then have at it. Pugsley was going to originally be a SS, but I got such a good deal on the bull barrel I bought it and since it shot so well I couldn't bare to mess with success.

I built my SS named Olive Oyl because I wanted to shoot SS games that pugsley really couldn't, and IMO shouldn't be able to shoot because the bull barrel weight, and stiffness is an unfair advantage when shooting groups against taper barrels. but if someone chooses to compete with their tapered vs bull barrels that do have an advantage, and they shoot better groups then they are a rock star. that's just my thought process.

Last edited by Clem-E; 12-31-2016 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:05 PM
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Thanks for the info. I'm not familiar with everyone's rifles by name so don't know what the build is, I scrolled through the 3 pages of SSH and didn't see a Pugsley build thread. Not looking to build and shoot a Superstock rifle in SSH games, I'm looking to build a SSH rifle that works for offhand as much as offbench. You didn't directly answer my question, is the GM heavy taper 19" not SSH legal even though it's listed as .760 at the muzzle?
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:12 PM
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I really cant answer your question on that front. Pugsley is in several of the games. Description and pics are there.
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:05 PM
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After measuring many GMHT barrels in 17" and 19" I found that they were all over from .745 to .761" At first I just kept that info to myself to stop any big argument over a couple of thousandths of an inch! It was just not important enough to fight over and some folks in SuperStock take our rules VERY seriously as I guess they should.

Me? I am more the live and let live type a guy. NONE of that matters so why worry about it in a practical sense? Heck we almost had a mutiny of the old guys when Suppressors were voted in with a completely normal discussion period and legal time period vote!! I felt we had to grow with the world of rimfire and suppressors are a part of rimfire now in an ever increasing way. Also I knew less than 5 guys were going to actually use them in the first couple years they were legal so why worry about it? I had some people very mad at me and old friends that still are upset with ME even though it was a VOTE!!

So what about your 19" GMHT problem? The answer is that barrel measures OVER .750" so, by the current rules in place in SuperSport it is completely legal!! It is right there in black and white right?

Thank you azjeff for asking and trying to be legal in this forum. That is an admirable thing and very good of you to ask. Go forth and shoot that thing!

By the way I had an input in that barrel being brought to production even though our friend at Green Mountain thought it would never sell. So many people in and out of SuperStock said they would buy one he decided to take a chance and the first run sold out in days! Still in the catalog 6 years later.

When a bunch of RFC folks got together and built me the African Rose GM remembered that and donated a 19" GMHT for my rifle. With some 10 year old Eley Tenex Ultimate that barrel shot something like 21 straight groups over a 2 day period that AVERAGED slightly over 1/4". I personally do not think that barrel gives up a darn thing to a .920 barrel except the extra weight (which makes group shooting easier) but in just mechanical accuracy I think it holds it's own.

Can you tell I REALLY like my 19"GMHT?
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Last edited by Vincent; 01-01-2017 at 05:09 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2017, 01:21 AM
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I would absolutely allow them in the games I'm running.
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BigSky1 View Post
I would absolutely allow them in the games I'm running.
What SS or SSH games are you running?
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:18 AM
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In his other thread, azjeff is considering a Magpul X-22 stock. Which I see no problem with. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=819561
In his other thread, he has not posted his final decision, on his stock choice.
He is going to use a GM Heavy Taper barrel. Which by the rules can be used in SS, or SSH.

So if azjeff changes his mind, and uses a traditional style stock.
Or the next guy does a build that could fit both SS, and SSH. Does that mean he can participate in games in both forums ?
I read nothing in the SS, or SSH rules covering the this.

With out a ( choose one or the other ) clause in the rules. A can of worms may be opened. JMO.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
In his other thread, azjeff is considering a Magpul X-22 stock. Which I see no problem with. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=819561
In his other thread, he has not posted his final decision, on his stock choice.
He is going to use a GM Heavy Taper barrel. Which by the rules can be used in SS, or SSH.

So if azjeff changes his mind, and uses a traditional style stock.
Or the next guy does a build that could fit both SS, and SSH. Does that mean he can participate in games in both forums ?
I read nothing in the SS, or SSH rules covering the this.

With out a ( choose one or the other ) clause in the rules. A can of worms may be opened. JMO.
It has already been discussed that any barrel larger than .750" at the muzzle IS legal in SuperSport.

A while back we had a discussion in SuperStock, when BigSky1 discovered one of his GMHT was slightly over .750 on a SuperStock rifle, that several of us had noticed variation in various generations of the 17" and 19". I, along with other never brought it up knowing it was not important. Rightfully BigSky1 was worried it could cause problems.

The thing is by then we had a very large number of rifles built with the 17" and a few more with the 19". Were we going to demand an inspection of every rifle and throw them and their targets out for being .005" oversize? That was why I never mentioned it and I figured when other people found these their thought would be "Yeah, so what?" just like I did. Well, that is also where the discussion went.

Logic prevailed over worrying about some minor variation that we could not control anyway. We have no way of knowing if YOUR barrel is .749 or .756 or even .761. The GMHT meets the spirit of the rule if not the EXACT measurement! Fighting this battle (if someone here decided to be so silly as to start a fight over a few thousandths of an inch) would be so counter productive in either forum that we just should not do it.

Other rule enforcements or rule changes have caused silly battles here and we just should not do that over this. We are not NASCAR. We do not have templates or laser measuring flat plate to enforce every little minor variations.

ALL the GMHT barrels meet the spirit of SuperStock rules. A number of them meet the letter of the SuperSport rules. Truth is it is very hard to even measure the smallest part of the muzzle and I measured stuff for a profession and as an engine build all my adult life!

If it really bothers anyone I could write next to the .750 barrel rule in SuperStock "Minor variations in the GMHT and similar barrels are recognized and will be ignored."

In SuperSport if you say your barrel is over .750" we just have to trust your honor just like we trust your honor when you measure a target here in any of our games. None of us would even THINK of telling you that the group you measured to be .509" to make the 13mm Funshoot looked like .513 and over the limit and we think you cheated! We trust you on that and have trusted hundreds of game making measurements, maybe thousands of them by now. We only ever busted one young kid for making his bullet holes with a sharp pencil and to be honest I was not comfortable with that one but Ricochet was sure the kid cheated and it turned out he had.

If you want to shoot a GMHT here in SuperSport measure it. Chances are it IS OVER .750" and legal here. Most of them are over. That barrel would be legal here and accepted in SuperStock.

Guys this not worth getting into a peeing contest over. Live and let live. Trust each other. I have found everyone here I can think of to have too much honor to intentionally cheat

Anyone have an issue with that if you even feel the need at all? Guys I have ZERO problem writing right next to the barrel rule something like "Given the wide variation in muzzle size in GMHT and like barrels these barrels will be accepted in SuperStock and SuperSport."

Heck it may just be the shot in the arm that SuperSport needs to liven this forum up a little and get more shooters and allow many SuperStock rifles that have made the games there to be allowed to shoot here too!

We did have a vote that SuperStock rifles would not be allowed to compete in SuperSport games but I think that was directed mainly at the skinny barreled rifles. I do not see how we can now say that any rifle that meets SuperSport rules will not be allowed to shoot here because someone once called it a SuperStock!
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Last edited by Vincent; 01-08-2017 at 03:11 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:14 PM
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Vincent I understand why the GM HT barrel is allowed in both SS, and SSH. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
I just ask the question because there is some builds in Super Stock, that meet Super Sport Heavy rules.
The one that I am working on now will fall in that grey area.
By no means do I want to start a peeing war.

I love the games, and I'll shoot in any that will let me.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjeff View Post
What SS or SSH games are you running?
Howdy AZ, I'm running these two at the moment.




50 Yard 3/8" Game


No Bull Challenge

Last edited by BigSky1; 01-10-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2017, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye57 View Post
Vincent I understand why the GM HT barrel is allowed in both SS, and SSH. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
I just ask the question because there is some builds in Super Stock, that meet Super Sport Heavy rules.
The one that I am working on now will fall in that grey area.
By no means do I want to start a peeing war.

I love the games, and I'll shoot in any that will let me.
If the rifle is legal in SuperStock and/or SuperSport you should be allowed to shoot any game as the rifle meets the rules.

Thanks to BigSky1 for the support he has given this forum. He actually pointed out to me the problem with the GMHT barrels at least a year ago and it was my decision to just live and let live. I very much appreciated BS1's honesty and concern when he asked me if one or more (I am not sure I remember if it is one or more) barrels fell into this abyss in the barrel rules.

People like him make this a better place. Thanks to azjeff and Hawkeye57 for their same concern and honesty also.

So what do you guys think? I probably should put that disclaimer in both forums barrel rules so this does not come up again? I am thinking that is the way to go.

Thanks guys!
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