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  #16  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:29 AM
ammohog
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Yep, something is wrong. I now shoot CCI SV in my 41, exclusively. It just works. The S&W Model 41 and the Contender with the match .22 barrel are the only .22 pistols I don't have trouble with lead buildup. The quality of the two barrels are just fantastic. Not so with the Ruger IV and the BuckMark. If you are that dead set on using ammo the pistol doesn't like, be prepared to deal with the end results. The price of CCI SV is minimal for a quality target pistol, considering the price of a good Model 41. I'm just glad you don't have a custom match benchrest rifle and are determined to shoot golden bullets because they are cheap. (and then blame your problems on the rifle) Good luck to you and your way of thinking. I know it is difficult for members here to give good advice, and then realize it was all in vain. At least they made an effort to help. Consider yourself "roasted".
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:31 AM
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I shoot a Buck Mark, Challenger II, Medalist and a HS Sport King and several other pistols and revolvers.

I use buffers in the BM, Medalist and C-II because by design or providence, buffers are easy to install. In the SK I use Aquila SE SV. It is less expensive than the CCI SV, just as accurate, if not more so, and seems to run 100% for me. In the other pistols, & most of my rifles, I have found Aguila SE HV to be very accurate in my CZ's, Zastava's, ATD, Henry H001 and Savage MKIIg.

I may not shoot as much as the OP, but I do not have the luxury to shoot the $10 a box + ammo either. For my purposes I get MOA or better at 50 and 100 yd.s with my rifles. Pistols are for fun and pleasure and they all shoot better than my 78 year old nerves will hold them. I can usually get the pins down in the shots allocated and my times may not be as good as they once were, but ever once in a while, I can still get down close to 3 seconds for 7 pins. That makes me smile. And the Mdl 41's are not always faster than me. There is one fellow about 25 years younger than me that shoots a highly modified BM and 300$ red dot that is quicker than greased lightning. He is GOOD!!

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  #18  
Old 10-20-2019, 06:00 PM
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A couple of months ago I sent my (41PC) back to Smith for an identical problem although my FTEs were not limited to SV.
I have gone thru nearly 400 rounds since (OEM spring). Equal amounts of CCI HV and SV. No issues so far.
S+W replaced the bolt face, trigger bar, slide stop and safety mechanism. The last item related to issues with the safety. In addition, the feed ramp originally had tool marks which no longer exist.
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2019, 10:08 PM
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Sounder,
Funny you mentioned the feed ramp. When I got mine the feed ramp was so ruff with tooling marks that I did not even try to shoot it before I sanded and polished them out. Feeding was great.

Thanks for all the comments guy's, I don't even mind the negative ones.

Ammohog,
I have never had any problem in my life with leading from a 22lr. But clean mine after every session. Thanks for the Roast

Last edited by jstanfield103; 10-20-2019 at 10:32 PM. Reason: removed content
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:16 AM
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Dear JStanfield:

I have been following this thread and refrained from commenting because I do not really understand where the heck you are coming from in your search for cheap ammo.

It really is not difficult to find CCI SV for $250 to $300 a case. I keep a minimum of 4 cases under the bed, about a years supply or maybe a year and a half.

I have a number of rimfire target pistols and rimfire target rifles. I compete both bullseye pistol and position rifle. I also play around with rimfire benchrest although that can get boring unless the flies are out.

What I cannot understand is you say that you want to use cheap supersonic ammo in your handgun to save money. Ok, I checked and the remington bucket of bullets is slightly cheaper then the CCI SV, Federal ultra match is about the same price, and the cheap federal stuff is about five dollars a brick cheaper. So for five dollars a week you are willing to accept the lousy accuracy, dirty burning, failure to fires, undercharged rounds, and all the other crud that comes with the lousy ammo? Maybe not so much with the federal ultra match but comon jstanfield, I find it hard to believe that you are willing to accept that much frustration to save a couple bucks a week, especially after you have paid top dollar for a brand new warrantied smith and wesson model 41.

We are sposed to be doing this for fun jstanfield, The objective is not to see how much lead gets slung downrange in order to maximize that fictional measurement of pounds of lead slung/cost of ammo.

About the only thing that makes sense is that you really do not understand how unreliable and inaccurate the cheap ammo is. I hope that when you get your model 41 back that you do a good ammo comparison test.

Bottom line is that you should shop around, find a good price on a case of CCI SV, why settle for less to save a couple pennies.

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  #21  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:25 AM
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I can say without reservation that the most important effect of this thread on me is that it has extinguished, forever, my once-burning desire to own a new 41. There is absolutely no excuse for such a ridiculously expensive product such as a 41 to have these kind of problems. None.
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:28 AM
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I can say without reservation that the most important effect of this thread on me is that it has extinguished, forever, my once-burning desire to own a new 41. There is absolutely no excuse for such a ridiculously expensive product such as a 41 to have these kind of problems. None.
Most don't my friend, mine was a bit picky for about 200 rounds and since then chugs along just swell on any Subsonic fodder, the accuracy and light trigger pull put a smile on my face.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:38 AM
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Crankythunder,
Thanks for your response, I do completely understand how much more accurate SV ammo is. I use to paper punch only. My first Model 41 was extremely accurate with it. But even with CCI SV only it would not extract and had to have the chamber reamed. After that it worked great. Even in my Remington 540X SV ammo was very much accurate. I find that instead of shooting 1/4" groups with CCI SV I will be shooting 1/2" to 3/4" groups with HV which is all I am looking for. The smallest steel plate on my range @ 25 yards is 1" and I can hit that most of the time off hand with my rifles and pistols.
$250 to $300 a case for the SV. Never have that much money to spend on ammo at one time. SO for me that adds up to $500 a case when bought locally a little at a time like I buy it. I prefer to shoot steel which is all I shoot anymore. I am not even interested in paper punching. I have steel plates from 1' to that 1", totaling 13 plates including a coyote and bear plates (still building my range a little at a time per year). Then 2 dulling tree's at 25 yards with 6, 4" plates on each end of range. So I really don't need the pin point accuracy. I would rather keep things easy (I don't compete, for me competing makes it more like a job) I grab one or two pistols and at least one lever action rifle (Winchester 9422, Marlin 39A Mountie, Browning SA-22, Browning BL-22 Grade II Maple) mostly my beater BL-22 Browning. Same ammo for all and just have fun. I don't want to mess with getting different ammo for a different gun when I go out and shoot. I like to just grab my stuff and put it in the mule and go to the range. I really can not afford to spend $250 or $300 on ammo at one time. So it is really easy for me just to go to Wal-Mart and buy a box or two, sometimes three boxes of federal 550 bulk pack @ $20 a box. Cheap fun and relaxing.

Even if I did buy CCI SV this Model 41 would not have extracted it. That takes the fun right out of the shooting. I have Browning, Ruger's and S&W 22lr Pistols/Revolvers that can shoot anything under the sun and never ever have any function related problems. Ammo once in a while is faulty but not very often on that either. I feel that this S&W 41 should shoot anything also. If it does not I will be getting rid of it. If I have a car that keeps acting up it goes down the road as will this 41. But I am confident S&W will get her going just like they did my 617. Life is to short to mess with a problem anything.

I use to love the first Model 41 that I had. Until I was forced to sell it for money troubles. I am a lot better off with money now a day's (thank the good Lord) so I wanted another 41 and did not want to have to fool with the reaming of the chamber myself again, and the hassle of doing that. Plus wanted the lifetime service policy that my S&W 617 has.

So that is really the way I am. Not a poverty level of person. Make descent money but not rich. My wife does not work. Last child out of the house yesterday. Finally empty nesters. Just Love guns, all sort of guns. Higher ammo cost would make two things happen. Take some of the fun out of shooting, cause me to shoot a lot less which I am not going to do (really the only thing that I do extra just for me in life) and would cause me not to be able to buy another gun that I wanted.
I probably should add that I will not baby a firearm, it should function no questions asked. It is a tool and should preform.

Last edited by jstanfield103; 10-21-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:57 AM
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gmd1950,
Glad to see you still on the forum. You have so many great firearms. Just a beautiful collection.
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2019, 11:01 AM
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Most don't my friend, mine was a bit picky for about 200 rounds and since then chugs along just swell on any Subsonic fodder, the accuracy and light trigger pull put a smile on my face.
Might well be, old friend. It is just that at my age, I no longer need the drama. My Kadet will digest almost anything, and shoots better than I can. I have more than enough .22lr ammo to last the rest of my life. I am best served by cleaning, polishing and waxing what I already have.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:17 PM
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Might well be, old friend. It is just that at my age, I no longer need the drama. My Kadet will digest almost anything, and shoots better than I can. I have more than enough .22lr ammo to last the rest of my life. I am best served by cleaning, polishing and waxing what I already have.
You owe it to yourself to own a smith and wesson 41 one of the best target pistols ever made. If you shop around you can find a used one for around 800 dollars. I tried to buy a Kadet just in the last week and I bowed out at 765 dollars I think. I did not think it was worth it. When I can find a used 41 for a little more money. Gerald is right the 41 will put a smile on your face as will a properly tuned Hi standard , I really like those pistols too but there is more to keep those running than a Smith 41.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jstanfield103 View Post
Crankythunder,
Thanks for your response, I do completely understand how much more accurate SV ammo is. I use to paper punch only. My first Model 41 was extremely accurate with it. But even with CCI SV only it would not extract and had to have the chamber reamed. After that it worked great. Even in my Remington 540X SV ammo was very much accurate. I find that instead of shooting 1/4" groups with CCI SV I will be shooting 1/2" to 3/4" groups with HV which is all I am looking for. The smallest steel plate on my range @ 25 yards is 1" and I can hit that most of the time off hand with my rifles and pistols.
$250 to $300 a case for the SV. Never have that much money to spend on ammo at one time. SO for me that adds up to $500 a case when bought locally a little at a time like I buy it. I prefer to shoot steel which is all I shoot anymore. I am not even interested in paper punching. I have steel plates from 1' to that 1", totaling 13 plates including a coyote and bear plates (still building my range a little at a time per year). Then 2 dulling tree's at 25 yards with 6, 4" plates on each end of range. So I really don't need the pin point accuracy. I would rather keep things easy (I don't compete, for me competing makes it more like a job) I grab one or two pistols and at least one lever action rifle (Winchester 9422, Marlin 39A Mountie, Browning SA-22, Browning BL-22 Grade II Maple) mostly my beater BL-22 Browning. Same ammo for all and just have fun. I don't want to mess with getting different ammo for a different gun when I go out and shoot. I like to just grab my stuff and put it in the mule and go to the range. I really can not afford to spend $250 or $300 on ammo at one time. So it is really easy for me just to go to Wal-Mart and buy a box or two, sometimes three boxes of federal 550 bulk pack @ $20 a box. Cheap fun and relaxing.

Even if I did buy CCI SV this Model 41 would not have extracted it. That takes the fun right out of the shooting. I have Browning, Ruger's and S&W 22lr Pistols/Revolvers that can shoot anything under the sun and never ever have any function related problems. Ammo once in a while is faulty but not very often on that either. I feel that this S&W 41 should shoot anything also. If it does not I will be getting rid of it. If I have a car that keeps acting up it goes down the road as will this 41. But I am confident S&W will get her going just like they did my 617. Life is to short to mess with a problem anything.

I use to love the first Model 41 that I had. Until I was forced to sell it for money troubles. I am a lot better off with money now a day's (thank the good Lord) so I wanted another 41 and did not want to have to fool with the reaming of the chamber myself again, and the hassle of doing that. Plus wanted the lifetime service policy that my S&W 617 has.

So that is really the way I am. Not a poverty level of person. Make descent money but not rich. My wife does not work. Last child out of the house yesterday. Finally empty nesters. Just Love guns, all sort of guns. Higher ammo cost would make two things happen. Take some of the fun out of shooting, cause me to shoot a lot less which I am not going to do (really the only thing that I do extra just for me in life) and would cause me not to be able to buy another gun that I wanted.
I probably should add that I will not baby a firearm, it should function no questions asked. It is a tool and should preform.
I have read this whole thread twice and have read the remarks and suggestions. I understand you do not shoot bulls eye anymore and do not need the accuracy of standard velocity. You are shooting steel and a hit is a hit who cares what your group size is? Also a standard bullet hitting will not be as loud as a high velocity hit on the steel plate. Your comment on the expense of the ammo puzzles me though. No body says you have to have a case or cases of standard velocity on hand. I have never bought a case of standard velocity ammo and I think I have way too much in my house. I just seem to pick it up when on sale and free shipping. I noticed you live in kentucky do you have an academy sports near? They have aquilla standard for 2.49 a box and free shipping for a 25 dollar order. That is about as good as it gets. Plus with a little searching you can find CCI standard for 25 dollars a brick. No need to think you can not have standard velocity ammo and it will cost more than what you are shooting now and the cost of it will not let you shoot as much as you want to shoot.
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:18 PM
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webfoot56,
No I do not have academy sports near me. The only reason I said a case was because he mentioned the price he got his ammo at per case, and I agree if you buy it per case you can get it cheaper.

Aquilla standard for 2.49 a box. That's an excellent price. I have tried Aquilla Standard but it has been several years ago or at least some time ago. I don't know where I would have picked it up. We use to have a Gander Mountain and now we just have a Cabelas. So I really have never looked at that ammo any more. I usually don't buy much from Cabelas because they are usually more expensive on everything it seems. So I really don't go there very much.

Truth be told, I am really not interested in SV ammo at all though. Like I have said several times the pistol should shoot anything that is put in to it. Because that pistol shot without a hiccup SK Match it seems people believe that is what I should be buying. I have not tried CCI SV in this pistol as of yet, but the federal Match has about the same waxy coating and did not work at all. In fact the federal bulk would operate most of the time with a drop of oil on the top round of the magazine. But still would have some problems with extraction. That is just un acceptable. I will not start carrying a oil bottle to the range every time I want to shoot. Ain't going to happen. No other guns I have need that kind of babying and this should not either. I put about 800 to a 1000 rounds through her the first week I had her. So any break in should have been done by now.

I know that everyone says you should shoot CCI SV. Hell they all maybe correct. But I have my own opinion on what a modern pistol should do and it should do exactly what it is suppose to do. It is a tool and S&W does not sell this pistol with the statement it will only shoot CCI SV, or even SV ammo period. It states that the use of Hyper Velocity ammo will possibly cause service sooner and the replacement of parts to the pistol. If they thought that it would not handle or tear the pistol up they would state use SV ammo only and not warranty it for service for the rest of you're owner ship (original owner). They don't even state HV ammo just Hyper Velocity will cause for service or parts replacement sooner. This is the quote from the S&W Manual for this pistol copied and posted straight from their manual. ( • Use of hyper-velocity ammunition in this pistol may affect wear characteristics and may result in the need for more frequent service and/or replacement of parts. ) If they say Hyper Velocity that is not even close to HV ammo. HV is around 1260, Hyper Velocity is around 1400 or higher like stingers and such.

I do not baby my guns, they will preform or fixed to preform like they should. SO truth be told like as I said really not even interested in shooting SV ammo. I want to shoot the same ammo I use in all my other guns that are 22lr and not have to buy, look at or pack different ammo for any 22lr. I shoot. I like things easy and covenant, just quick pack and go when you have the time to hit the range. Have fun no worries no drama.

Now down the road if I decide to paper punch again I will start to use SV ammo again. But I do not see that happening but minds and moods do change. I am 57 years old now and getting pretty set in my ways. Use to pack shooting stands different ammo, different targets, staple guns, staples. What a hassle. Now I just grab a rifle, a pistol throw them in the back of the mule, rifle on gun rack pistol in a soft case. Grab a box of 22 ammo that I put in 100 box holders and I am off to have fun. No hassles just shoot and plink away. Should have done that years ago, best relaxation in the world.

I know you guy's are just trying to keep me from being me and my pistols own worst enemy. The comments and help provided are appreciated. I really hope that I am not coming across like a pain and I am sure you guy's think that I am a dumb a**. But I have always wanted the model 41 back in my collection and will be happy to get it running correctly, so I probably am a dumb a** about this pistol but we will see. You guy's are probably correct on all sides. I even use to have a Remington Model 12 that was in excellent condition and loved shooting that also. But since it was made in the late 20's or early 30's I had to shoot CCI SV in it. I got rid of that rifle just because I did not want to buy or look for CCI SV or even SV period. I won't even buy a gun now that has not been made before 1935 because I don't want to fool with SV ammo. Want all my guns to shoot the same thing HV cheap and fun ammo.

Last edited by jstanfield103; 10-23-2019 at 08:22 AM. Reason: added content
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2019, 06:01 PM
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OK Guy's/Gal's

While waiting on my 41 to be fixed and returned I bought another 7" new S&W barrel for it. Mounted the scope on this barrel. One thing I noticed on this barrel over the one that came on the pistol is I can take a 22lr SV or HV and it will drop right into the chamber and turn the barrel up and it will drop right back out. The one that came with the pistol would never do that. Can't wait to get the pistol back and see how she shoots and try this new barrel out.

She is with technicians right now according to S&W CS.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:17 PM
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OK Guy's/Gal's

While waiting on my 41 to be fixed and returned I bought another 7" new S&W barrel for it. Mounted the scope on this barrel. One thing I noticed on this barrel over the one that came on the pistol is I can take a 22lr SV or HV and it will drop right into the chamber and turn the barrel up and it will drop right back out. The one that came with the pistol would never do that. Can't wait to get the pistol back and see how she shoots and try this new barrel out.

She is with technicians right now according to S&W CS.
I won't get into the ammunition choice thing but I will say that I think that you're on the right track about the tight chamber. I bought my first 41 from a guy that shot bullseye with his wife and they were selling it because they bought higher price guns and didn't need it anymore. He advised me that it occasionally had stove pipe jams and that he used the oil drop trick. I tried that with some success. This is a late 90's pistol and I later purchased a barrel from a fellow here that is a Lazy& vintage and miraculously all the stove pipes disappeared. They made the guns with more care then. The original barrel is just a paperweight now. I recall someone on here suggesting using jeweler's rouge and a spent case to polish out the bore to address this problem. Hopefully S&W solves the problem and it sounds like the other barrel passes the plop test so be sure to share the results when you get the pistol back. I also have an older 41 from about 1964 but it doesn't get shot much. It's more valuable in my opinion than the newer one. The ones they are making now, even with the warranty, are shooting guns. Take it out and shoot the heck out of it.
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