CMP 52D & SK/Lapua/Eley ammo - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:41 PM
flatlander
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Western Kansas
Posts: 
381
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
CMP 52D & SK/Lapua/Eley ammo



Log in to see fewer ads
It'd been several years since I'd taken my CMP 52D out of the safe to shoot. Since then, I've built myself several .22RF precision repeaters for RF PRS/NRL22 type matches, and done a lot of testing with various lots of SK, Lapua, & Eley ammo. I've got case quantities of some pretty good ammunition for custom barreled 40XB, CZ457, and V-22 rifles that all shoots very respectable groups. So out of curiosity, I decided to get the 52D out and try some of this ammo in it. I set up a portable bench with doggone good bags at 50yds, and shot a bit to get the bbl fouled & warmed up, then shot this target, with a Weaver T-24 on a Ken Vianni mount. I realize none of these are BR-quality groups, but bear in mind that this rifle was used in a school's ROTC program for a lot of years before the CMP recalled it and thousands of rifles similar to it. I've borescoped the bore, and while it doesn't look bad compared to the bores of several other CMP 52s & 40Xs I've looked at, it doesn't come off looking very good compared to the custom ACE, Bartlein, Benchmark, Broughton, Krieger, Lilja, & Shilen bbl's I've used on my other .22s. Still shoots OK though...think I'll keep it. Karl Kenyon re-worked the trigger on it for me years ago after I'd bought it from the CMP & decided to keep it set up as a target rifle. No, it's not quite as nice a trigger as the Trigger Tech Diamonds I've got on the V-22s, nor as nice as the one on my Anschutz 2011, but it's easy to shoot well with, and much, much, much better than it was before Karl worked on it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_1140.jpg (366.8 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_1223.jpg (143.9 KB, 42 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:39 AM
dokey
Law Enforcement Officer NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2008
Location: 
NY
Posts: 
1,175
TPC Rating: 
100% (7)
Have you tried Eley Tennex or Wolf Match?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:15 AM
flatlander
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Western Kansas
Posts: 
381
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
No on both those ammo types. From time to time, I'll get curious enough to buy some lot samples of Eley Match, but I'm not at all interested in spending the $$$ that Tenex costs. Same goes for Lapua X-Act. Maybe if I were seriously into smallbore prone matches I'd try some of the higher priced lines, but for what I'm doing, Center-X is hard to beat.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:54 AM
n64atlas
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2009
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
2,637
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Not sure of your text technique, but did you clean the more and reseason after each ammo change? The difference in line between ammo companies can influence the next group. To really text ammo, you need to clean and reseason to see what the ammo will really do. Some brands and rifle take a bit to settle in. This takes time and controlled conditions to see real results. Shooting outside compounds the results due to wind and mirage
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:29 AM
flatlander
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Western Kansas
Posts: 
381
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I've heard quite a few guys make the claim that you need to clean between grades and/or brands of ammo while testing. In my experience, it's not at all necessary, especially with custom hand-lapped barrels. At least, that's been my experience with ACE, Bartlein, Benchmark, Krieger, Lilja, and Shilen .22RF bbls. Maybe there's an advantage to cleaning some factory bbls, that aren't as smoothly finished as the custom bbls I've worked with, but even though this 52's bore isn't anywhere near as slick & purty as the customs I'm used to looking at through a Hawkeye borescope, it didn't seem to require any cleaning or extra fouling shots. The groups in the photo are representative of the best I can shoot. I have my really good days when I'm well-rested & my vision is as good as it gets nowadays, and then there are evenings after a full day of working that it's a bit tougher to shoot decent groups with any rifle. It was a lot easier and took less effort when I was in my 30s and still had 20-10 vision. I'll be 68 in a month, and it can be a real struggle some days to see through a good quality scope consistently enough to hold for a really tight group. IOW, I was pleased with my old 52D's performance. I think it might very well be capable of shooting better groups with these same lots & brands of ammo in the hands of an experienced 30-something shooter...lol
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:38 AM
Shamokinbob

Join Date: 
Oct 2018
Posts: 
305
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I think then a custom barrel is in order
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:17 PM
n64atlas
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2009
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
2,637
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
Unless you are in a controlled environment, you might not see that the lines make a differenct. Too many other factors involved when shooting outside. These companies don't hide the formulas for no reason. Your posted groups looked like wind or chasing the previous shot with the crosshairs. I tend to do the same at times. When doing a dead on hold with scope, it is easy to loose the previous aim point. I'll be 68 in December, and had 20-10 vision as well. It gets harder for us old guys to admit that we are the weakest link in the accuracy quest. I don't know if you are logging condition on each shot that might indicate any a group isn't as good as you thought it should be of any that brand didn't seem as good as the next. Tough to do a real ammo test with all the variables that you have to deal with in 22lr. Center fire is a bit easier.
P.S. Don't forget to add a grain of salt to the above verbiage.��

Last edited by n64atlas; 08-15-2019 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:07 PM
wwace

Join Date: 
Mar 2012
Posts: 
989
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamokinbob View Post
I think then a custom barrel is in order
there is nothing wrong with that barrel, it looks like there was a left crosswind or OP just applies a little sideways motion at the trigger break.

I would love to shoot that D
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:30 PM
flatlander
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Western Kansas
Posts: 
381
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
wwace - As I mentioned, those groups may well represent the limits of my skill. I'm used to shooting a couple of V-22s with Trigger Tech Diamond triggers set at under 8oz, and the Kenyon-modified trigger on that 52D breaks at about 12-14oz IIRC. Been awhile since I put an el-cheapo RCBS spring tension trigger pull gauge on it. Whatever - neither lot of SK Rifle Match shot as well as they usually do out of either of my V-22s. The first lot of Center-X isn't nearly as good as the 2nd lot in any of my other rifles, including an Anschutz 2011, so I wasn't surprised at its slightly larger group. As best as I recall, there was a little breeze from 7:00-8:00 starting to pick up as I finished this target with Eley Match, but I feel the majority of the stringing out to the right was me not breaking shots as cleanly as needed for a tighter spread. I'd like to see a more accomplished BR shooter shoot this rifle too - even though I wasn't terribly disappointed in my feeble results.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:36 PM
wwace

Join Date: 
Mar 2012
Posts: 
989
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
wwace - As I mentioned, those groups may well represent the limits of my skill. I'm used to shooting a couple of V-22s with Trigger Tech Diamond triggers set at under 8oz, and the Kenyon-modified trigger on that 52D breaks at about 12-14oz IIRC. Been awhile since I put an el-cheapo RCBS spring tension trigger pull gauge on it. Whatever - neither lot of SK Rifle Match shot as well as they usually do out of either of my V-22s. The first lot of Center-X isn't nearly as good as the 2nd lot in any of my other rifles, including an Anschutz 2011, so I wasn't surprised at its slightly larger group. As best as I recall, there was a little breeze from 7:00-8:00 starting to pick up as I finished this target with Eley Match, but I feel the majority of the stringing out to the right was me not breaking shots as cleanly as needed for a tighter spread. I'd like to see a more accomplished BR shooter shoot this rifle too - even though I wasn't terribly disappointed in my feeble results.
Like I said, leave that gun alone. I would try different lots of CenterX at most
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:30 AM
Greg Palman
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! Appleseed Rifleman

Join Date: 
Jan 2005
Location: 
Eastern Maine
Posts: 
1,255
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
your

10 shot group with center X, except for the one outlier at 1 o'clock, is nice and round and the best group....round and tight. What did it look like after 5 shots?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-22-2019, 11:34 AM
pump .22s's Avatar
pump .22s
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Dec 2010
Location: 
Deep East Texas
Posts: 
11,887
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Considering the ammo you were shooting those are respectable groups for an old factory gun.....so, no, I would not re-barrel it....leave it alone in my opinion. The reason I say those aren't bad groups is that your results are pretty close to what my 52E and D used to do...with the ammo you shot. But as I have discovered, some lot tested (for that gun) top end ammo can make a so-so gun shine. I recently stumbled into a very good lot of Midas + that has jumped those two guns into another accuracy step.

A lot the stringing and so on that has affected your groups may indeed be attributable to wind, but don't discount the impact of proper rest set up and equipment. When I switched from shooting off bags - especially the front, my scores went up significantly. Not saying that is an issue with your gun, but there are so many things that can account for the results you got besides the barrel.

James
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:22 PM
flatlander
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2002
Location: 
Western Kansas
Posts: 
381
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
greg - I don't really recall what the 2nd lot of Center-X's group looked like after 5 shots. But that lot is considerably better in all my other rifles than the one I shot the previous target with. That lot was from my 1st attempt to find a good lot of Center-X - after testing about a dozen lots, I'd finally found what I felt was a pretty darned good one. Only problem was, by the time I'd managed to find it, I was late to the party, as there was no more of it to be found. I bought 3000rds of #7791 because it was the 2nd best of the ones I'd tested. I bought two cases of #1117 after looking over the results of sending a Krieger-bbl'd V-22 action out to Mesa for the Lapua Test Center to shoot. It probably isn't good enough to suit a good RF BR or high master smallbore shooter, but I don't feel it's hurting my scores in the PRS-style 22RF PR matches I'm shooting with my V-22s.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:01 AM
wwace

Join Date: 
Mar 2012
Posts: 
989
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
greg - I don't really recall what the 2nd lot of Center-X's group looked like after 5 shots. But that lot is considerably better in all my other rifles than the one I shot the previous target with. That lot was from my 1st attempt to find a good lot of Center-X - after testing about a dozen lots, I'd finally found what I felt was a pretty darned good one. Only problem was, by the time I'd managed to find it, I was late to the party, as there was no more of it to be found. I bought 3000rds of #7791 because it was the 2nd best of the ones I'd tested. I bought two cases of #1117 after looking over the results of sending a Krieger-bbl'd V-22 action out to Mesa for the Lapua Test Center to shoot. It probably isn't good enough to suit a good RF BR or high master smallbore shooter, but I don't feel it's hurting my scores in the PRS-style 22RF PR matches I'm shooting with my V-22s.
What were the group sizes of your Lapua test?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eley CMP ammo, what is it? iceweazel .22 Ammunition (S-L-LR) 15 06-03-2019 08:50 PM
Rules: 25 Yd Offhand 500/50X Match Any Gun, Any Ammo Bob4BVM Offhand Rifle Match 4 05-05-2019 12:08 PM
Eley Tenex ibbuckshot .22 Ammunition (S-L-LR) 50 03-01-2019 09:19 PM
Need help evaluating ammo test elisowski CZ / Brno 1 03-16-2017 11:30 PM
Accuracy testing and ammo recommendations? Woodbender .22 Ammunition (S-L-LR) 9 03-16-2017 10:25 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x