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  #46  
Old 09-25-2019, 05:18 PM
Ett2

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I've been milling this over for a few months now myself, we hold a bench shoot at 50 feet indoors over the winter months. But over the past few years attendance has somewhat dropped off. I personally feel like most factory rigs can't compete with Anny's, Walther and guns like that 40xs of course. There's where most wins comes from those guns.
So I've been thinking of a factory class, no BR stocks, no aftermarket barrels, pretty much just recrowning, and trigger work.. well along with bedding jobs. I think more shooters would come back knowing that rhey won't be competing with real Benchrest guns.
Cuz we've had some great shooting 541s, and cz's along with a few KSA 722.. but in the end they are a few wipeout's away from the money. But they could win a factory class, also gives me a reason to shoot my factory rig's😂
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  #47  
Old 09-25-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleAllen View Post
I donít understand why?

If you are shooting the Sporters in the same relay as Unlimited....there are 50 flags out there anyway.

If you want the Unlimeted Shooters to take down their flags for the Sporters, get ready for some Cussing.
I thought about flags several times before I posted that. If it has to be done in conjunction with other relays....so be it. I certainly don't want to inconvenience someone who has spent a small fortune on equipment.

My reasoning goes something like this:

My first use of a bench 60 odd years ago was strictly for the purpose of getting my scope sighted in, and getting comfortable with the rifle ( Ward Western Field/Lyman) a sporter, to be used for squirrels, rats, and general plinking. The sporter came first. The bench was a tool to get the best performance from the sporter. I've since seen many different forms of stabilization in the field (with sporters) Blankets, bags, sticks, crossed sticks, trees, monopods, bipods, and even a portable bench in a tree stand; but never a wind flag. Those pieces of surveyor's tape you sometimes see in the woods...those are pieces of surveyor's tape.

Anyway, it's just an opinion, and we all know what those are like.

Gerry
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  #48  
Old 09-26-2019, 11:51 AM
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Factory ARA class

Answers:

1) Yes I would attend

2) Use a different Target so that you could look at the target and tell what class the competitor is shooting

3) No ammo rule; too hard to police

Comments:
Too many rules, means its a pain to police.

If you want to limit costs make a list of acceptable manufactures. The local BR match has 4 classes. The "Factory" class has gotten very expensive, because their are people now buying Anschultz to shoot that class.

As we all know 22 lr rifles are finicky about the ammo. I think you should be able to shoot the ammo your rifle shoots good.

Just my 2 cents worth
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  #49  
Old 09-27-2019, 01:10 PM
chuck40219
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barnyard match

Several years ago I remember hearing about a game called barnyard matches. Looked in my region could not find anything. From what I read, it would be the kind of match I would like to shoot. Sounds like some of the ideals put forth in these post. Does anyone remember this or am I just dreaming this up?

chuck40219
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  #50  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:58 PM
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Nope, not dreaming.

Been shooting them for several years, it's basically how I got started shooting rimfire. Most likely there are no two the same, as far as targets or the way the game is played. I have been to several and all seem to run very smoothly. The one I attend the most, use a major name target, IR RBA ARA & PLS. We shoot two targets, the winning is broke this way. Row winner = 10, target winner = 2, best center in a vertical row ( determined by a roll of the dice) = 10 and most X's on both cards. So you have 23 chances of winning something, this is determined by the number of shooters involved. Some nights everyone is a winner and some nights not. We usually have between 12-18 shooters and we all have a great time. Very casual, laid back, only a few rules to follow.
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  #51  
Old 09-28-2019, 10:24 PM
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Hard subject to figure out. I love to shoot my old factory rifle. But I canít shoot it at a ARA match because I would be shooting my custom. So you would have to have a separate match for me or other custom guys to participate. That would run in to more time, so donít think you would get much participation from the custom guys. Probably would have to call it vintage, or classic, or else you will have 3,000 dollar anschutz or other new technology brands competing with old heavily shot guns. It goes on and on. I would limit the mods to factory action , Barrel, no tuner, bedding and trigger work ok. Factory stock with plate ok. Just my opinion. If you donít want it to become ammo race then pass out ammo of the day.
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  #52  
Old 09-29-2019, 05:57 AM
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^^This^^
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  #53  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:51 PM
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Talking Sporter BR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
My club (Kentucky Precision Rimfire) has factory matches every month. We have two classes that are considered factory, heavy bolt (rifles that weigh more than 8.7#) and light bolt (rifles that weigh less than 8.7#)

Rules for each class is simple. Factory stocks, or a stock that is offered from the factory on that model. Example: CZ 455 American or Varmint in a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock of any color because you can buy a factory made 455 with a PV stock.

Factory barrels only. They can be recrowned if needed but that's the only modification.

Triggers can be lightened but must be factory.

Any ammo can be used.

Must use a two piece rest set up and no tuners.

These two classes are our most popular and get more shooters then the other three classes (custom, semi, unlimited) combined. They're also a real challenge so I'd say there would be alot of interest.
Your matches sound similar to our Club's Rimfire BR matches; Sporter, Ultimate Sporter, Heavy-weight Target, High-speed rimfire, Auto, Ultimate Auto and lastly peep-sights. About the only thing we don't shoot are custom ARA setups. We used to shoot ARA but the match director moved and attendance fell off. Our classes allow you to shoot what you brung and still be competitive. Attendance is up....fun for all without the need to spend big bucks
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  #54  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highdollar View Post
Hard subject to figure out. I love to shoot my old factory rifle. But I canít shoot it at a ARA match because I would be shooting my custom. So you would have to have a separate match for me or other custom guys to participate. That would run in to more time, so donít think you would get much participation from the custom guys. Probably would have to call it vintage, or classic, or else you will have 3,000 dollar anschutz or other new technology brands competing with old heavily shot guns. It goes on and on. I would limit the mods to factory action , Barrel, no tuner, bedding and trigger work ok. Factory stock with plate ok. Just my opinion. If you donít want it to become ammo race then pass out ammo of the day.
Bart, the intention isn't to get custom shooters to shoot factory guns. The whole reason for the question is to promote a way for people who either can't afford to or simply don't want to spend the money required to do a full custom, travel, etc. The end goal and hope of course is that a few of those that may start attending with a factory gun get hooked and start competing at a higher level. Some will attend and never come back, some will continue to attend and just shoot factory class, and other may eventually invest more into it. In the end, it's just about getting more people to shoot.

Hope to see you at a match soon. Been busy at work and haven't shot much this year. Will be in Tulsa and at Indoors in Dec.
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  #55  
Old 10-04-2019, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hozzie View Post
Bart, the intention isn't to get custom shooters to shoot factory guns. The whole reason for the question is to promote a way for people who either can't afford to or simply don't want to spend the money required to do a full custom, travel, etc. The end goal and hope of course is that a few of those that may start attending with a factory gun get hooked and start competing at a higher level. Some will attend and never come back, some will continue to attend and just shoot factory class, and other may eventually invest more into it. In the end, it's just about getting more people to shoot.

Hope to see you at a match soon. Been busy at work and haven't shot much this year. Will be in Tulsa and at Indoors in Dec.
I have not shot any. Took another position at work so I could shoot more, but to much stuff keeps coming up and have not shot all summer. Probably going to chickenfoot next week . See ya before long
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  #56  
Old 11-06-2019, 08:05 PM
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Answers:

1) Yes I would attend

2) Use a different Target so that you could look at the target and tell what class the competitor is shooting

3) No ammo rule; too hard to police

Comments:
Too many rules, means its a pain to police. It also makes it pain to participate.

Calling it 'Factory" and then allowing mods of any kind defeats the purpose of having the class. If you're going to allow mods make it a 'Hobbyist' class.

Last edited by kidneyboy; 11-07-2019 at 03:40 AM.
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  #57  
Old 11-08-2019, 03:53 AM
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I like the philosophy of providing entry level matches to those without desire or money (myself) to shoot traditional, formal, acknowledged (expensive) RF benchrest, but still want to learn, compete and have fun. To attract and promote new shooters and prevent the matches from turning into a $ spending race, require competitors to use truly affordable rifles with a factory retail value $ cap (say $400, for example). Likewise a $ cap on allowable optics and scope power. NO modifications from factory production, including stock mods, bedding, barrel crowning, free floating, trigger mods, etc. Set a minimum allowable trigger pull weight; if the factory rifle comes with an adjustable trigger, it must be set at, or higher than that minimum specified weight (2.75 lbs., perhaps?), even if it will adjust lower. Now the curious new shooter doesn't feel totally outclassed, having to shoot his entry level Marlin, Savage, Mossberg, etc., against a very high end factory Anschutz, Rem. 40X, Vudoo, class rifle. Front and rear bench bags only, no adjustable rests of any kind. And to throw another field leveling twist into the mix, require all the competitors to use ammo that falls into a mid level price range (CCI SV?). The random ammo inconsistencies will tend to further negate any performance advantage of one specific rifle over another. Those flyers will provide the same challenge to experienced and novice shooters alike, and further inject an element of luck into the competition. It's all about having fun and learning basics at this level....if the new shooter gets intrigued, he may end up a top level national competitor down the road. And to help give this class its own identity, definitely create its own specific scoring target. Limiting the spending and having a very specific set of rules would tend to give more parity to everyone participating. Just my opinion; how about yours?

Last edited by Steve Newman; 11-08-2019 at 04:04 AM.
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  #58  
Old 11-08-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RAVAGE View Post
We have our own barrel, made in a facility where we own 100% of the production, made to our bore and groove specs, twist rate and profiles and use a chamber designed by me and exclusive to Vudoo. In addition, we offer other barrels from Bartlein, Proof Research and Lothar Walther. Our barrel is our "factory" barrel.

MB

That being the case.... this type match would basically become a Vudoo / Anschutz invitational, as they have little competition from the "factories."

FTR.... I'm OK with that. I already got my Vudoo, and its already winnign matches.


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  #59  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Newman View Post
And to throw another field leveling twist into the mix, require all the competitors to use ammo that falls into a mid level price range (CCI SV?). The random ammo inconsistencies will tend to further negate any performance advantage of one specific rifle over another. Those flyers will provide the same challenge to experienced and novice shooters alike, and further inject an element of luck into the competition.
That would be a big turn off for me. Luck is for gambling. I'd be ok with dead stock rifles, but let me shoot the ammo I want. Flyers are no fun, and can be detrimental to a novice shooters growth. If they're still building their skills, how do they know if they're getting better if they're forced to shoot with crappy ammo?

In my experience, I had a really hard time figuring out what I needed to work on when I couldn't trust if that 6 was me or the ammo.
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  #60  
Old 11-10-2019, 12:52 AM
Steve Newman

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pmpski, I see your point, and I didn't mean all competitors would have to use the same brand of ammo, just have a spending $ cap on it. I understand that every shooter wants to fire the optimal ammunition for the best results out of his rifle. True that the shooter's confidence gets undermined if he thinks he is breaking a perfect shot and sees the bullet impact far away from where he is holding. I guess in my mind, I'm trying to envision a competition cheap enough and accessible enough, with a good bit of parity built in (sort of like the parity in NASCAR), that anyone would feel comfortable trying it, and an average shooter, though inexperienced would have a chance of doing well, if not outright winning. Just don't want to alienate or turn off shooters trying the game with a $300 factory rifle and mid grade ammunition, when they have to compete with a shooter with a $1500 or more, semi custom, "factory" rifle, with the most expensive Eley, Lapua, etc. ammunition, and get steamrolled so badly, they quit and never come back. That's why I propose spending limits on all the equipment, including ammo. Or how about this: have a single rifle and make every competitor shoot it with the same lot of ammo....then there is NO equipment advantage. Would make for an awfully slow, long match, though....haha. Just kidding.
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