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Old 08-06-2019, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Relax FB, less than a month and I'm done.
I'll be out of y'er hair and will no longer be trying to get folks to actually back up their claims.
I'll have tried all the 22lr, 22wmr, 17wsm and 17 hmr available, across a chronograph.
Something most won't or can't afford to do.
I don't offer a comment without actually using something first.
Hence, when I see something that doesn't match my experiences, I question those posted claims.
When asked to substantiate those claims, none are willing to take the time
or spend the 10 or 15 bucks it would cost. Easy enough to do so, yet it doesn't happen.
No problem sending a couple hundred rounds of 22lr, but 50 rounds of 22wmr is too expensive?
Makes me wonder as to the veracity of all those claims.

Y'er right FB...I don't belong here any more.
Too much talk, not enough willingness to back it up.

You belong more than you realize..........if you leave, may the force be with you!
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:02 PM

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Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
I dont shoot my 22mag like that. I zero at 100 and note my accuracy with a few loads and call it done. I dont bang away with my centerfires 50 rounds a day on paper either. Maybe you get some else to take the challenge. I expect to see a control sample. Ie shoot two guns and two calibers side by side. To me it makes no difference, I know what I have.

I would like to hear back from the OP. He was told about RWS ammo. Did he ever respond?
I mentioned earlier that I tried 3 different lots of RWS 40 grain jsp and was not really blown away with the performance in regard to accuracy. The velocity of the earliest lot I shot however was very high for 40 grain 22WMR 2176 average for 15 shots es of 207 and sd of 92. I would like to make clear I’m not saying 22WMR is a bad cartridge it’s my favorite small game cartridge, it has however been my experience in my firearms that ammunition performance in regards to accuracy have been inconsistent and in general not great. I simply wanted to see if I could generate some constructive conversation on the topic, my bad on that one guys. Anyone shot new production Remington 33 grain ammo? Might try some in a 457 American I’m about to pick up.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:30 AM
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It is not your bad. Fair question and it did stimulate discussion. I think I have seen the lot dependency, my problem is I dont use up ammo fast enough. And, so far been able to find something that did well in each gun. I stock up and maybe all set for years. I do know for a fact, 22LR varies from lot to lot. I still have 2 bricks Norma Match that did not live up to the first.

Yes, look back 6 or so posts for a member who did GREAT with the Rem 33 grain. It was immediately followed by a challenge to prove it! I have not had any luck with the one box of 33 I tried in three rifles. You never know...

I just read a good report on the T Bolt sporter with SK+ (22LR). I dont see anyone implying he is a mistaken person. Or demanding he take a challenge.

Last edited by fourbore; 08-07-2019 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:43 AM
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Y'er right FB.
I'm a contentious individual.
Always have been, always will be.
Go back through the 22wmr posts I've been involved in.
Nowhere have I blamed the rifles or questioned the skill of the shooters.
What I have done is point out, repeatedly, that the 22wmr is not a precision target round.
No company makes or sells 22wmr that is consistent enough to be sub-moa "all day long".
Then when the 22wmr fanboyz get all defensive about their favorite cartridge, I ask for proof.
Always have, always will. Any one with a box of decent 22wmr can shut me up at any time.
All they have to do is use a chronograph and post the results of 50 shots at 100 yards.
No excuses, no side stepping the issue, just show me.
Don't get defensive or belligerent, show me.
Put on y'er big boy pants and step up to the line.
Prove to me there is a 22wmr cartridge capable of "all day long".
If you can't, and continue to claim you can, expect me to be here poking fun at ya'.
At least for a couple more weeks.




and the one that started it all...


As for the T-bolt thread, don't own one, never owned one,
can't offer anything useful to the conversation.
In that thread the pics show the quality of SK+.
Best two groups and one has a stray sitting way off to one side.
No "all day long" happening there. No need to point out the obvious.

For obvious reasons, the forum user options panel includes an ignore feature.
It'll filter out the posts of any member you find overly irritating.
No need to read any of those dissenting opinions if you don't want to.

Last edited by jaia; 08-07-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:57 PM
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Wow, the ignore button works great. No more annoying challenge posts...Sweet!
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:29 PM
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Y'er welcome.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:30 PM

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A brief description of my experience with the .22 WMR.
About 1965 I bought a used but like new Mossberg 620K .22WMR.
That was the single shot version of the 640K.
It never shot all that well and I eventually sold it.
About 2010 I found a like new 640KA at gun show very cheap and bought it.
It was cheap because it too was a single shot - that is it was missing the magazine.

I shot groups with it using a variety of ammo and a K12 Weaver 12X scope.

At 50 yards most of the better rounds shot 5/8" groups.
At 100 meters most of the groups were 2.5" to 4.0".
Winchester 45 grn Dynapoint with the plated lead bullets was the worst.
Groups were uniformly un-uniform at 3.5" to 4.0".

Winchester Supreme, WW HP and WW FMJ shot the smaller groups.

My investigations showed the grouping tended to be funnel shaped.
Groups at 100 meters were significantly worse than what you would predict based on 50 yard groups.
I theorized the following:
1. The bullets might be of poor quality
2. The bullets might not be stabilized at 100 meters due to the rifling twist being to slow.
3. Poor quality rifle barrels
4. Poor quality chambers
5. Poor chamber design
6. Poor quality ammo in general.

Here is what I have done so far
1. I pulled the bullets from some WW FMJ ammo. I sized the case mouths to get rid of the crimp distortion and then I seated 40 grn and 45 grn Sierra Hornet bullets on top of the original powder charges.
When checking the 640KA's chamber to determine the best seating depth I found the chamber cut to about the right depth but the origin of the rifling was deeper than the SAAMI drawing specifications.
So I seated the bullets way out until about 1/2 caliber was all that was holding the Sierra bullets in the cases.
Both Sierra bullets shot better than factory ammo but not by a lot. The groups were about 1/2" smaller at 100 meters. The 45 grain bullet caused the cases to expand about .002 larger than the factory ammo. The 40 grain Sierras expanded the cases the same as the factory ammo.
2. Testing for the correct rifling twist remains a subject for more investigation and might mean buying a 14' or 15" twist barrel. Kind of expensive.
3. My Mossberg barrel seems smooth enough. I have not made a casting of the chamber or slugged the bore for size.
4. My chamber seems to have the origin of the rifling about .180 longer than a loaded round. This causes the bullets to jump a long way before entering the rifling.
5. I examined the SAAMI cartridge and chamber designs. The .22 WMR chamber is really sloppy and over size for the little .22 WMR round. It appears this was done to insure easy feeding and function. As one guy put it - it appears the .22 WMR was designed by the rabbits that were going to be shot by it. The chamber diameter might work better if the front half was about .002 smaller. The rear of the chamber could match the SAAMI dimensions to insure feeding.
6. So far the problem seems to be a mix of half baked ammo and half baked chambers. More testing is necessary.

In the mean time I bought a CZ527 Hornet. It is much, much more accurate and it is much easier to reload using the same Hornet bullets by Sierra.
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