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  #1  
Old 01-10-2016, 07:16 PM
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stock cz 455 varmint @100&200 yards



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After 1000+ rounds fired, very please with with cz rimfire. I'm excited for next trip to see what else I will learn.


Last edited by cimba; 01-10-2016 at 11:44 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:38 PM
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You will learn that unless you are using top tear / top shelf ammo , 100 and 200 are an exercise in futility and frustration . With proper fodder , you will be well pleased i'm sure .
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:39 PM
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200 yards rapid fire approximately 60 shots of bulk ammo in 20 minutes

100 yards approximately 50 shots of bulk ammo in 20 minutes
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:53 PM
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10 bucks a box 100



15 bucks a box 100



Cant find a picture of 5 buck a box SK , but was at an inch aggregate . Thinking 20 buck Midas might get ya into the sixes
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:57 PM
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Nice groupings where can I find lupua ammo?
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:06 AM
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http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai...yBody&c=APRALA

Champions Choice , but up to 11 and change a box now . Graf and Sons has it too , and they do 7.95 flat rate shipping but at over a 11 a box for Center X . The real deal there is UM-22 for 14.99 a box on sale at 7.95 shipping .

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/378
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by cimba View Post
Nice groupings where can I find lupua ammo?
Try a mix of target ammo. SK, Eley Target for about $7.00 a box, federal match like in the above pic bottom target,Lapua, Wolf, and even CCI standard. Your rifle will favor a particular ammo more than others. My 453 loves Eley Target. If you want to get into one inch groups finding the magic bullet is a great place to start.

Ammo online. Sportsmans Guide, Champions Choice, Killough shoting sports, and others often carry match/target ammo. Others may offer direct links, I'm just going off of memory here.

My CZ Ultra Lux likes Eley SS HP alot. When I do my part, I can get groups under 2 inches at 150 yards with open sights. Not always, but I can usually bust a soda can at that range with most standard v ammo. Long range really takes rimfire to a whole new fun factor.

Enjoy
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:47 AM
Onearm
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$10, $12, $15, $20+ a Box Rimfire Ammunition For Fun Shooting?

Unless you are a competition rimfire shooter, I do not understand why anyone would pay $.25 a round for rimfire ammunition. That is $12.50 a box. Center X is getting close to that, while Midas, Eley Match and RWS R-50, not to mention Tenex have shot past the $.25 a round barrier like it wasn't there.

You could buy a decent used small bore centerfire rifle in 22 Hornet, 204 Ruger, 222 Remington or 223 Remington and hand load ammunition for $.25 a round that would make 100 yard groups that look like 50 yard rimfire groups. 223 Remington is so common, components for loading and even commercial ammunition for it are so cheap that it is becoming the 22LR of small bore centerfire. 223 brass is essentially free. It is on the ground at every rifle range and gravel pit for the picking. 55 grain bullets can be bought in bulk for pennies a piece. Though I already have three excellent centerfire rifles in different cartridges, I am thinking of buying something in 223 Rem. for an inexpensive plinker. That is to say a plinker that will be more accurate at 100 yards than any 22 LR rifle I have ever owned.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy shooting my CZ 452 American and my Martini International MK II. I just cannot see buying $.25 a round ammo for either of them. I still have thousands of rounds of excellent ammo that I bought years ago including Lapua Center X, Eley Match, RWS Rifle Match and SK Standard Plus. I just do not shoot a brick a week like I used to when the most expensive rimfire ammo I bought was under $10.00 a box.

I must also confess, I seldom shoot my rimfire rifles beyond 50 yards, except my one rifle in 22 WMR. Now don't get me started grumbling about where 22 WMR prices seem to be headed. I am thinking of selling that rifle and saving my supply of 22 WMR for my Ruger Single Six. There is a used left handed CZ 527 in 223 Rem at a local shop. If I can talk the seller down to $550 I will buy it and sell my Savage GL 93 with a couple of bricks of 22 WMR to help pay for it.

Speaking of the sales mentioned here; I suggest you all jump on those prices. You will not see their like again. I have already written of my excellent results with Norma Match 22. I suggest you all stock up on that also, before Norma jacks up the price to over $12.50 a box.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:55 AM
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Your rifle will favor a particular ammo more than others.


Yep, the flavor with the tightest mv spread.
and when you've used up that brick,
you'll again be hunting through all the brands for more that shoots as well.


hand load ammunition for $.25 a round


You must be buying wholesale.
Just finished 250 rounds of 223, after shipping and hazardous materials fees
primers, powder and heads worked out to 43 cents for each cartridge
plus the time spent working the brass and at the loading bench.
Or, I can jump on line, order match 22lr at 33 cents a round
and produce the same size holes in the target as the 223.
As a plus, barrel wear on a 22lr is nowhere near as fast as that produced by the 223.

Given a choice between shooting a brick (500) of bulk ammo and a box (50) of match ammo,
I'll choose the box of match ammo. Results downrange are better, and I learn more.

Last edited by jaia; 01-11-2016 at 06:58 AM.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2016, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onearm View Post
Unless you are a competition rimfire shooter, I do not understand why anyone would pay $.25 a round for rimfire ammunition. That is $12.50 a box. Center X is getting close to that, while Midas, Eley Match and RWS R-50, not to mention Tenex have shot past the $.25 a round barrier like it wasn't there.

You could buy a decent used small bore centerfire rifle in 22 Hornet, 204 Ruger, 222 Remington or 223 Remington and hand load ammunition for $.25 a round that would make 100 yard groups that look like 50 yard rimfire groups. 223 Remington is so common, components for loading and even commercial ammunition for it are so cheap that it is becoming the 22LR of small bore centerfire. 223 brass is essentially free. It is on the ground at every rifle range and gravel pit for the picking. 55 grain bullets can be bought in bulk for pennies a piece. Though I already have three excellent centerfire rifles in different cartridges, I am thinking of buying something in 223 Rem. for an inexpensive plinker. That is to say a plinker that will be more accurate at 100 yards than any 22 LR rifle I have ever owned.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy shooting my CZ 452 American and my Martini International MK II. I just cannot see buying $.25 a round ammo for either of them. I still have thousands of rounds of excellent ammo that I bought years ago including Lapua Center X, Eley Match, RWS Rifle Match and SK Standard Plus. I just do not shoot a brick a week like I used to when the most expensive rimfire ammo I bought was under $10.00 a box.

I must also confess, I seldom shoot my rimfire rifles beyond 50 yards, except my one rifle in 22 WMR. Now don't get me started grumbling about where 22 WMR prices seem to be headed. I am thinking of selling that rifle and saving my supply of 22 WMR for my Ruger Single Six. There is a used left handed CZ 527 in 223 Rem at a local shop. If I can talk the seller down to $550 I will buy it and sell my Savage GL 93 with a couple of bricks of 22 WMR to help pay for it.

Speaking of the sales mentioned here; I suggest you all jump on those prices. You will not see their like again. I have already written of my excellent results with Norma Match 22. I suggest you all stock up on that also, before Norma jacks up the price to over $12.50 a box.
I for one can out shoot my CZ's capability most of the time when shooting inexpensive ( read inconsistant ) ammunition . There for it is a complete waste of money and more importantly time to shoot substandard fodder . If one can out shoot his or her rifle / ammunition combination , how are we gonna know if the errant ' flyer is the equipment or the loose nut driving the thing ? How are we gonna improve our skills and become better shooters when you cant tell if this or that hold , trigger modulation , or cheek is better than the next ? Now I would agree that my shooting off hand silhouette skills don't require over 5 dollar a box ammunition , but I would bet there are some shooters out there that do

One other thing to take into account is the price of inflation . You said the most expensive you have bought was 10 dollar a box , but I'm guessing that was quite a few years ago when the price of living was 20% to 30 % less than it is now maybe ? ( Not calling you old )

Also , I will agree with Jaia , for my home rolled 223 rounds to be as accurate as 15 dollar a box ( .30 cent a round ) 22lr , I am at around .37 cents a round . Those bulk 55 grain 10 cent a projectile rounds won't shoot in the .7s , at least not in any of my guns . Have to step up to at least a polymer tipped varmint or HP match boollit at ~ .25 cent a whack .
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Your rifle will favor a particular ammo more than others.


Yep, the flavor with the tightest mv spread.
and when you've used up that brick,
you'll again be hunting through all the brands for more that shoots as well.


hand load ammunition for $.25 a round


You must be buying wholesale.
Just finished 250 rounds of 223, after shipping and hazardous materials fees
primers, powder and heads worked out to 43 cents for each cartridge
plus the time spent working the brass and at the loading bench.
Or, I can jump on line, order match 22lr at 33 cents a round
and produce the same size holes in the target as the 223.
As a plus, barrel wear on a 22lr is nowhere near as fast as that produced by the 223.

Given a choice between shooting a brick (500) of bulk ammo and a box (50) of match ammo,
I'll choose the box of match ammo. Results downrange are better, and I learn more.
X2 .
The hardest part I've found is coordinating my range visits with conditions . Seems within 10 minutes after I arrive at the range , the wind starts swirling
Another thing is temps . If it's below 50 and/or the wind is blowing , I leave the good ammo at home and practice my offhand shooting . Kirby

Last edited by Bigbluegill; 01-11-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2016, 04:12 PM
Onearm
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Originally Posted by 67rschev View Post
One other thing to take into account is the price of inflation . You said the most expensive you have bought was 10 dollar a box , but I'm guessing that was quite a few years ago when the price of living was 20% to 30 % less than it is now maybe ? ( Not calling you old )

Also , I will agree with Jaia , for my home rolled 223 rounds to be as accurate as 15 dollar a box ( .30 cent a round ) 22lr , I am at around .37 cents a round . Those bulk 55 grain 10 cent a projectile rounds won't shoot in the .7s , at least not in any of my guns . Have to step up to at least a polymer tipped varmint or HP match boollit at ~ .25 cent a whack .
I have been shooting less than 10 years. Only three years ago, I was buying Lapua Center X.(by the case) under $10.00 a box at CSS.

My most recent purchase of Lapua Center X was September 2013. I still have the receipt. I bought a case for $920.00 + 54.39 Shipping and 27.60 Credit Card Fee. That totals $1000.99 for 5000 rounds. Today it is more than that without shipping or other charges.

Taking out the shipping and other costs, the current case price for Lapua Center X at CSS is 1070.00. Compare that to 2 1/3 years ago when it was $920, that is a $150 ( just under 16%) price increase. About a year before then, I bought a couple of cases of SK Standard Plus at $450 a case. The current price is $570 a case. That is a 27% price increase.

Around the same time, I was buying Federal Automatch for $13 a box (325 rounds) for cheap plinking ammo, at my local gun store. It gave remarkably good results in my CZ. Today it is at Midway for $21.48 a box. That is a 65% increase in cost.

So, to summarize price inflation since 2013:
1. SK Standard Plus = 27%
2. Lapua Center X - 16%
3. Federal Automatch = 65%
4. Official US Dollar cumulative inflation over the past three years = 3.4%

There was higher inflation in the first few years I was shooting. Between 2005 and now, the total inflation figure is 21.5%. Then in 2007, the economy collapsed. Interest rates dropped to figures unheard of since I was a child in the 50s and inflation nearly vanished. During the same period (since 2007), ammunition and loading component prices have soared well above background inflation, especially rimfire ammunition.

Here is your inflation calculator: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Reloading 223 Rem at current costs:
A store called "Tactical Brass" (http://tacticalbrass.com/index.php?l...ist&c=featured) has perfectly fine refurbished 223 brass at $15.50 per 100. That = 15.5 cents apiece. If I fire form and then reuse each case a conservative 5 times ( usually up to 10 times) that equals about 3 cents per load for brass. The same site has Hornady 60 grain Spire Point bullets at 13.50 per hundred. Midway has CCI 400 primers for $32.28 Per 1000 and Winchester 748 Powder at 27.99 per pound. Now if I use 25 grains of Win. 748 per load, the 7000 grains per pound will give me 280 loads at $.10 per load.

So:
Brass - 3 cents
Primer- 3 cents
Bullet - 13.50 cents
Powder - 10 cents
Total = 29.5 cents per round.

Actually, I buy all rimfire ammunition by the case and centerfire components in bulk at about a 10% savings so I could make the same loads for about 26 cents a round. I buy primers and powder locally to avoid shipping and buy bullets by the thousand. All of my brass is either reloads from commercial ammo that I bought and fired or else I bought it commercially in bulk.

I am currently loading 222 Rem with Lapua brass. I bought 400 pieces from Russ at his usual price ($ .50 each). I am loading 204 Ruger with the brass that came from the 150 rounds of Fiocchi 34 grain V-Max I bought from Midway at $.70 a round. With Winchester 204 brass at 32 cents a piece today at Midway, I saved my brass. Subtracting the value of the brass, I figure it cost me less than 40 cents a round to shoot what I bought. After five to nine additional reloads with that brass, it gets even less expensive.

I could go on about this but I am convinced that I can load 204 Ruger, 222 Rem. or 223 Rem for about the same or less than the price of premium 22 LR ammo., about the same as 22 WMR and cheaper than I can find 17 HMR anywhere.

On a typical day at the range these days, I shoot 50 rounds of 222 Rem, 25 rounds of 204 Ruger and 50-100 rounds of 22 LR. Think of all the money I am saving.

Last edited by Onearm; 01-11-2016 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:19 PM
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Onearm

Sorry to imply that inflationary prices have solely dictated the current pricing of 22lr , when I'm sure there are more factors at play like supply / demand and maybe a little raw material price and lets not forget greed . It seemed from your first post that your inventory had been accumulated some time ago . A case of Center X in '13 for under a G , good on you , most of us were looking very hard for that type of score . Only the OP can decide at what price point is their limit , and point diminishing return and trying to share my results and findings .

For myself , a 60 grain spire over 748 wont get sevens with any thing I own , matter of fact nothing over 748 has gotten any of my platforms appreciable results . I do like how it meters though . Maybe its a gas gun thing , have no little bolts other than my rimfires . I do have a White Oaks Varmint that will put a Custom Comp or SMK over Varget into aggregates in the sevens and even sixes on a good day , but again we are talking 37 cent a whack .

Good shooting and Shoot strait to you
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:07 PM
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Onearm

Sorry to imply that inflationary prices have solely dictated the current pricing of 22lr , when I'm sure there are more factors at play like supply / demand and maybe a little raw material price and lets not forget greed . It seemed from your first post that your inventory had been accumulated some time ago . A case of Center X in '13 for under a G , good on you , most of us were looking very hard for that type of score . Only the OP can decide at what price point is their limit , and point diminishing return and trying to share my results and findings .

For myself , a 60 grain spire over 748 wont get sevens with any thing I own , matter of fact nothing over 748 has gotten any of my platforms appreciable results . I do like how it meters though . Maybe its a gas gun thing , have no little bolts other than my rimfires . I do have a White Oaks Varmint that will put a Custom Comp or SMK over Varget into aggregates in the sevens and even sixes on a good day , but again we are talking 37 cent a whack .

Good shooting and Shoot strait to you
My centerfire rifles are a BAT action BR competition rifle in 222 Remington, a Ruger No. 1 Varmint in 222 Remington and a Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 204 Ruger. I have no experience with "evil black guns" except for shooting friend's ARs.

With Winchester 748 or H 322 and 52 gr. Berger bullets, the BAT gun regularly gives groups near .200" at 100 yards. It recently gave me a 100 yard five shot group measuring .196" using Bart's 52 grainers. I have been loading for the No. 1 with IMR 4895 and 55 gr. Berger bullets. 100 yard groups with that rifle have been in the low 1/2" range with a recent 1/3" group. I have not yet done any load testing for the Hawkeye. I have fired 50 rounds of the Fiocchi with it. Last summer, on a trip to the Olympic National Forest, I shot it at an estimated 300 yards and (after sighting in) I could hit a 3" diameter target repeatedly with no misses.

This coming Wednesday I will be doing some true side by side comparison between Win. 748 and H-322 in my BAT gun. I have also loaded up rounds to directly compare IMR 4895 and H-322 in the No. 1, with last of my 55 gr. Bergers. I recently bought 2000 52 grain Bart's Bullets from Ron Hoehn at 29 cents each. As soon as I run out of Bergers, I will be shooting the Bart's in both of my 222s. For general shooting at 1 MOA or so, the cheap bullets would do fine in the Ruger No. 1. When I was shooting a Ruger No. 1 V in 220 Swift, I tried some very cheap surplus pulled bullets and manages 1 MOA. I also tried a reduced velocity (2000 fps) load in the same rifle, with the cheap bullets and still maintained 1 MOA.

Just yesterday, I prepped 50 of the 204 Ruger brass cases. I have a couple hundred Hornady 40 grain V-Max bullets for it. I will start load testing soon. Everyone else who has a rifle in 204 Ruger recommends 39 grain Sierra Blitzkings for it. I will try those next.

I find the best available deals for rimfire ammunition and centerfire components using the world's biggest catalog ever, the internet. I just type in what I am looking for and comparison shop. I also have an on-going relationship with CSS. They regularly send me e-mails when ever they get something in that might interest me. As much as possible, I do my ordering over the phone, so as to create a personal relationship. When calling CSS, I ask for Carl and refer to myself by name. It really makes a difference.

As to pricing, there is the old principle, "what the market will bear." The ammunition and loading component manufacturers have obviously been allowing occasional shortages to occur over the past decade. Then ammo, powder, primers, etc. show up in small lots at inflated prices. Once we are used to those prices, ammo and components magically appears everywhere at the new prices. It's called business. It is not some kind of a conspiracy. There just are not enough manufacturers of high quality ammunition to create any real price competition. If Eley raises prices, Lapua, RWS, Wolf, Norma, SK and Federal just do the same.

As I said, it's just good business, charge what the market will bear.

We have wandered pretty far off topic here. I think I will end my part of the discussion. If anyone wants to discuss this further, I suggest starting a thread in the Centerfire Sub-Forum.

Last edited by Onearm; 01-11-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:39 PM
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About a year before then, I bought a couple of cases of SK Standard Plus at $450 a case. The current price is $570 a case.

:
Wow.. for once you guys in the States are paying more for ammo than we are in Canada.
I just picked up a case of SK Std. Plus for $585 CDN. Not too bad considering our dollar is worth about 72 cents US right now.
Having said that, his prices haven't gone up in over a year on that ammo.
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