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  #1  
Old 12-13-2020, 11:55 PM
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Winchester 52, co-witness: help?



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Looking to preserve co-witness but have high magnification. This is mostly a question about ‘scoping a rifle; but the rifle in question is a Winchester Model 52; so hopefuly it makes sense to post the question to this sub-forum.

A year ago, got my Model 52 set up to use either the Lyman aperture (already mounted, for a long time, when I bought it) AND a newly mounted Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20. Really! enjoy it. The rifle can print amazingly small groups at 100yds - if only I can see the target. So, it would be oh so nice to have more than 4x magnification.

A larger diameter ‘scope would get in the way of the iron sights*. And today I found that new eye-glasses make the irons useful again. So I’m looking for something that is removable with [near] perfect re-zero ... OR a higher magnification ‘scope no larger than the VX: 1”.

Any ideas? It’s only recently that I’ve taken to scoping rifles much: pretty clear that I could benefit from advice/help. Suddenly scoping a rifle has become important ... those iron sights just cannot reach out as they used to do.


*- taller rings could compensate ... not out-of-the-question.

TIA

Last edited by tgt_usa; 12-14-2020 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 12-14-2020, 12:26 AM
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Due to the bolt throw on the 52, a lot of guys use xtra high rings when mounting a scope so the ocular doesn't interfere with the bolt throw. But you may still have some interference with the aperture sight. It is pretty easy and quick to remove the aperture sight for when you use the scope but don't be surprised if you never put it back on....

Bob
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Old 12-14-2020, 06:47 AM
crankythunder

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Dear Tgt:

I have a winchester 52c that I routinely switch from Redfield aperature sights to a Unertl 16 power and have not notice a change in zero when I switch from scope to irons.

I also have a Ken Viani mount that I used to use with a more modern scope, a Leupold 6.5x20x40 and I switched from irons to scopes to irons with no loss of zero there either.

With that being said, i would recommend that you find a Ken Vianni scope mount that has the Redfield base as part of the weaver base. they are tough to find and the seller usually wants a arm and a leg and another arm.

REgards,
George
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:19 AM
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What model 52 do you have - Sporter? The 52 target models (I owned a 52D I competed with), almost always have some sort of removable "iron" sights front & rear - Redfield for example. The scope, whether it be Lyman, Unertl, etc., is attached to bases mounted on the barrel. Switching back & forth during a tournament, I never noticed much, if any, change in zero using this setup.
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Old 12-14-2020, 01:11 PM
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Already works with aperture and scope

‘Scope and aperture are working, ‘scope mounted and working alongside the aperture for about a year. The aperture is pretty much non-optional: when teaching for BSA, gotta use irons. And, sadly, when I asked the armorer to replace the Lyman with a NOS Williams aperture sight, he found he couldn’t remove the Lyman without drilling out the mount screw hole. So I made some neoprene parts as springs and jury-rigged the Lyman. It’s again working great.

The problem for which I’m seeking advice / help is increasing magnification when using a ‘scope. Something that makes the *scope* quick detachable but with a reliable retention of zero would be awesome! Then I’d just mount a higher power ‘scope and find another job for the Leupold VX-Freedom. Another thought: Something that is either detachable or inobtrusive that increases target magnification might be better yet, as the VX is a nice ‘scope: but at 100yds, I cannot see the PoA under the reticle. Still, through prepping the target, it’s printing <1” groups.

TIA

Last edited by tgt_usa; 12-14-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2020, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankythunder View Post
Dear Tgt:

I have a winchester 52c that I routinely switch from Redfield aperature sights to a Unertl 16 power and have not notice a change in zero when I switch from scope to irons.

I also have a Ken Viani mount that I used to use with a more modern scope, a Leupold 6.5x20x40 and I switched from irons to scopes to irons with no loss of zero there either.

With that being said, i would recommend that you find a Ken Vianni scope mount that has the Redfield base as part of the weaver base. they are tough to find and the seller usually wants a arm and a leg and another arm.

REgards,
George
That sounds beautiful. Ill look into that.

Thank you!
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2020, 01:22 PM
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Pre-stamped A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockcrafter View Post
What model 52 do you have - Sporter? The 52 target models (I owned a 52D I competed with), almost always have some sort of removable "iron" sights front & rear - Redfield for example. The scope, whether it be Lyman, Unertl, etc., is attached to bases mounted on the barrel. Switching back & forth during a tournament, I never noticed much, if any, change in zero using this setup.
According to Houze, mine is from the stretch between making the rev A mods and starting to add the A to the receiver markings. That written, Im told it has some custom sight-mounting mods. So Id expect to have additional options without needing any actual gunsmithing.

Switching sights without change in zero: exactly so! Thatd be perfect. Never had occasion to do that before. Glad to read its feasible.

Thank you!
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:22 PM
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You don't need a Ken Viana mount or one of the other cantilever mounts that people talk about using. I have been using simple 11mm rails that use the existing scope mounting holes to attach it to the barrel and /or the front receiver scope block holes on the 52E or similar actions which have been drilled and tapped.

I have been using these types of mounts for nearly 10 years with great success on my custom prone rifles. I have been using either a Leupold 35X or Nightforce 42X competition scopes and I have shot multiple 1600 scores using this system.

I have worked with a couple of gunsmiths to create the rails and I use Hawke mounts which will go on a 11mm rail. I also have a similar mount for a Remington 37 prone rifle.

Bill
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2020, 07:13 AM
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Before 'scoping

Last edited by tgt_usa; 12-16-2020 at 07:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2020, 08:07 AM
David Valdina
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Christmas is coming, buy a second rifle.

Christmas is coming. Buy yourself a second Winchester 52 that already has a scope mounted on it. They are out there.
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  #11  
Old 12-16-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgt_usa View Post
Before 'scoping
This is easy, but not cheap! I currently own a pre-A mod. 52 very similar to yours, but converted to speed lock.
There is a rear sight removal button on the front of your sight base. Push in that button to retract the rear sight unit upwards. Match up the side slide markings to return sight to original position when reinstalling. Front sight (if original to the rifle), can remain in place without affecting operation of the scope.
On your barrel you will see two groups of 2 holes that are used for mounting of Unertl/Lyman-type target scope bases. Bases are available from Brownell's I believe. Buy yourself a (used), 20X Lyman Super Targetspot scope for about $800 and your good to go. You can then switch back & forth between irons & scope without losing zero. One nice thing about the vintage Unertyl or Lyman scopes is that they will hold their value with time should you decide to sell.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2020, 09:59 AM
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Post #11 is particularly helpful. Thank you 'Stockcrafter'!
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2020, 10:17 AM
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After: with VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20. As well-made as is this telescopic sight, the rifle deserves more magnification power. But had a great time, again, yesterday using the old Lyman aperture. New eye-glasses are a treat!
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2020, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Valdina View Post
Christmas is coming. Buy yourself a second Winchester 52 that already has a scope mounted on it. They are out there.
"They are out there" Where?
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2020, 06:16 AM
David Valdina
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Where to find a Winchester 52 ...

40+ for sale on GunBroker.com, you just need to look around. Good luck.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Bolt-Actio...LR&Ch-model=52
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