Do any Manufacturer's of .22 LR run tight? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 09-21-2020, 08:33 PM
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Do any Manufacturer's of .22 LR run tight?



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Tire companies are notorious for this, 5 different 245's all measure differently?

Are the any brands that tend to run a little tight in the chamber or a little loose? If so, which ones.

Thanks-
Jim
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:50 PM
Gizzy
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CZ's are the tightest I know of. Anschutz will be next, as far as factory guns anyway. CZ has a tighter muzzle end than all of the others.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:06 PM
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The groove diameter on a CZ is like all the rest .222, you're correct that the bore/lands stick up a little higher on the hammer forged CZ digging into the bullet deeper.

But? I believe he's talking about cartridges? In that case US producers generally size the majority of their 22's to fit the majority of US produced "Sporting chambered" rifles. The driving band configuration such as with different CCI ammo will cause the bullet to chamber harder due to a larger/higher band on some of their ammo when shooting a rifle with a tighter "Match" sized chamber.

Anschutz is known for producing a snugger chamber than CZ although CZ's being European also run tighter than most American produced rifles.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:29 AM
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Yes, cartridges. I’ll measure the few different ones I have. Am curious if any manufacturers have a reputation for being ‘tight’?
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIB View Post
The groove diameter on a CZ is like all the rest .222, you're correct that the bore/lands stick up a little higher on the hammer forged CZ digging into the bullet deeper.

But? I believe he's talking about cartridges? In that case US producers generally size the majority of their 22's to fit the majority of US produced "Sporting chambered" rifles. The driving band configuration such as with different CCI ammo will cause the bullet to chamber harder due to a larger/higher band on some of their ammo when shooting a rifle with a tighter "Match" sized chamber.

Anschutz is known for producing a snugger chamber than CZ although CZ's being European also run tighter than most American produced rifles.
Err...per CIP wrong.

However, for 22 LR, the CIP standard specifies a minimum bore dia. ~0.005 in smaller than SAAMI, and a minimum groove dia. ~0.004 in smaller.


Now if you mean ammunition, Lapua use to make M and L versions of a couple of their Mid to Upper range target ammo, haven't seen it in a while
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:57 AM
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The OP's question has to do with the size of the round itself, not the chamber. Ammo is supposed to be manufactured to the specifications of SAAMI or CIP, both of which are the same. The chamber dimensions are not.

It's possible that some .22LR ammo manufacturers produce a product that for some reason is not identical to the required specifications or that is less consistent in size than the ammo produced by other makers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizzy View Post
CZ's are the tightest I know of. Anschutz will be next, as far as factory guns anyway. CZ has a tighter muzzle end than all of the others.
Most European countries adhere to CIP specifications for the manufacture of firearms. The Czech Republic, where CZ is located and its firearms made, is a CIP country. So, too, is Germany.

CZ bore dimensions are not tighter than other European rifles manufactured according to CIP specification.

CIP has a minimum chamber dimension, while SAAMI has a .22LR "sporting" chamber and a .22LR "match" chamber. The dimensions of the CIP chamber are tighter than either of the SAAMI chambers, although it is not clear if some models of firearms -- e.g. semi-autos, perhaps some repeaters -- are made to larger dimensions.

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Old 09-22-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizzy View Post
CZ's are the tightest I know of. Anschutz will be next, as far as factory guns anyway. CZ has a tighter muzzle end than all of the others.
CZ chambers on average are not smaller than Anschutz nor are the bores tighter. Do some measuring.
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
Err...per CIP wrong.

However, for 22 LR, the CIP standard specifies a minimum bore dia. ~0.005 in smaller than SAAMI, and a minimum groove dia. ~0.004 in smaller.


Now if you mean ammunition, Lapua use to make M and L versions of a couple of their Mid to Upper range target ammo, haven't seen it in a while
I don't have the greatest luck accessing all of the CIP websites measurements especially where it concerns 22 LR bore/groove diameters.

Did you find the information you posted directly on the CIP website?
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Old 09-25-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1950 View Post
Err...per CIP wrong.

However, for 22 LR, the CIP standard specifies a minimum bore dia. ~0.005 in smaller than SAAMI, and a minimum groove dia. ~0.004 in smaller.


Now if you mean ammunition, Lapua use to make M and L versions of a couple of their Mid to Upper range target ammo, haven't seen it in a while
Thank you for pointing out the differences between SAAMI and CIP. After looking again at CIP figures I do see the numbers in the CIP data for 22 long rifle that are also shown in the CZ chart that Penage Guy presented in his post. You're correct when you state .005 less bore diameter although you are double the difference when you stated .004 less groove diameter. It should be .002 inch less CIP groove diameter than that of SAAMI.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:19 PM
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winchester

I have had problems extracting unfired super-x from some rifles with hunting chambers which was attributed to larger bullets. Don't ask how much larger since I never measured the rounds myself. I just didn't buy any more.
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:18 PM
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Speaking in generalities, most European ammo makers seem to have better quality control these days than American,
Holding dimensions and tolerances tighter in Europe.
American companies seem to be content to allow tolerance s to stack until ammo does start causing chambering Andy extraction issue seems among other indicators of lower quality control.
Sad but true
I remember shooting true match grade ammo made by Winchester and Remington in my younger days, that could match European ammo performance. That has not been the case for decades.
Most of the ammo I am referring to is Remington palma and Winchester mark III or IV which had been discontinued even by the time I was using it.

The sacrifice of quality of quantity in American 22 ammo is distressing to say the least
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Old 09-27-2020, 01:32 AM
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So what do Mexican producers follow CIP or SAMMI?
Gabby
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:43 AM
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So what do Mexican producers follow CIP or SAMMI?
Gabby
The Aguila Supper Extra box says CIP right on the front of the box.

Bill
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2527 View Post
Yes, cartridges. I’ll measure the few different ones I have. Am curious if any manufacturers have a reputation for being ‘tight’?
I've read of some where CCI-SV was more tight in their chambers. Personal experience hasn't borne that out but I have experienced poor target results with a bad batch of Minimags some years ago. I just chalked it up to CCI's poor QC these days, IME JMO YMMV of course.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabby-Bill View Post
So what do Mexican producers follow CIP or SAMMI?
Gabby
CIP and SAAMI ammo specs are the same.

Some ammo may take more effort to chamber because of differences in the bullet itself. Not all bullets share identical geometry. CCI SV is often harder to chamber in Anschutz rifles, for example.
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