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  #16  
Old 01-02-2022, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
I have the Ruger Single Six and Taurus DA 992.
Both are more accurate with the 22wmr.
Both are preferred by the kids over the semi-auto pistols.
They run through 500 shots with 22lr faster than you'd think.
Center of rodent at 10 yards is no problem.
Iíd like to have a Single six because, with 22lr my EAA bounty hunter is center of hippopotamus but with the magnum cylinder itís center of ground hog at 25 yards.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2022, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicharrones View Post
Imagine if a gun maker really did split the difference between the two. That would get us a .2235", which would really be splitting hairs.

Personally, I haven't seen a real accuracy difference between cylinders in my Single Six that wasn't related to ammo the gun didn't like.

Then I wonder about all the double action rimfire revolvers out there without interchangeable cylinders, but offered in either .22 LR or .22 WMR. Do those gun makers really make barrels .001" different from one another? Or do they simply put .223" barrels on them and let the WMR ammo push on through?
Another thing to remember is 22 WMR bullets usually are jacketed while the 22 LR bullets usually are just lead. As mentioned by badge851, the difference between those two calibers is a thousand inch in diameter. For lead bullets the bore diameter usually could be another thousandth inch smaller than if it was jacketed. Which mean there potentially could be a difference of two thousandth inch between the ideal bore diameters for both calibers. I could be wrong though but it didn’t surprise me to hear some mentioning the 22 magnum being more accurate out of those convertible revolvers since the bore diameter would have to be larger to accompany the 22 magnum bullets.

Last edited by shamrock12; 01-09-2022 at 08:29 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2022, 11:29 PM
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.001” between .22LR and .22WMR.

For consideration on this topic, I’ve taken 32 ACP and fired it through a chamber adapter in a .308 Winchester barrel many times.

.32 ACP is jacketed and has a bullet diameter of .3125”. A .308 Winchester rifle bullet is .308” in diameter.

If a .32 ACP can make it down a bore that is designed for a bullet .0045” smaller, I have no problem believing a jacketed .22WMR can make it down a “.22LR barrel” with much less ill effect.

It would seem there is constant speculation what barrels that gun makers are putting on these convertible guns. It sure would be interesting to hear the straight truth from gun makers what barrel bores they use on these handguns.
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2022, 09:02 AM
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I’m starting to think that ammo manufacturers and gun makers must chuckle every time they see these discussions on barrel diameters. Or simply have moved on from worrying about it.

I need to keep some info in my brain as I seem to always forget these specs.

Bullet diameters-

.22 WMR = .224”

.22 LR = .223” to .2255” or simply .224” in the illustration linked below. Seems like leading concerns are why .22 LR barrels are at .223”.

If leading is an indicator of too large a bore for .22 LR, I can say I don’t see much leading in any of my .22s not counting my old Beretta Bobcat.

I wonder how many convertible owners see leading happen quickly and often in their revolvers?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:22_long_rifle.svg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

Last edited by chicharrones; 01-10-2022 at 09:15 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2022, 10:12 AM
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Biggest variable for groups or poa vs poi in handgun shooting is the shooter, not a hypothetical bore variation of maybe a .001".
Recover some of those 'too small for the bore' 22LR bullets and you will find them fully obturated and engraved and no sign of accuracy ruining gas cutting.
I believe the 22Mag is enough faster barrel time that it gives us less time to make mistakes after ignition.
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  #21  
Old 01-12-2022, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Biggest variable for groups or poa vs poi in handgun shooting is the shooter . . .

Pretty much sums up my problems.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2022, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Biggest variable for groups or poa vs poi in handgun shooting is the shooter, .
Pretty well describes me also. About 60 years ago I was fairly good with a handgun, but after 20 some years of clay target shooting, anticipating recoil and the report of a shotgun, I developed a flinching habit and things haven't been the same ever since.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicharrones View Post
.001” between .22LR and .22WMR.

For consideration on this topic, I’ve taken 32 ACP and fired it through a chamber adapter in a .308 Winchester barrel many times.

.32 ACP is jacketed and has a bullet diameter of .3125”. A .308 Winchester rifle bullet is .308” in diameter.

If a .32 ACP can make it down a bore that is designed for a bullet .0045” smaller, I have no problem believing a jacketed .22WMR can make it down a “.22LR barrel” with much less ill effect.

It would seem there is constant speculation what barrels that gun makers are putting on these convertible guns. It sure would be interesting to hear the straight truth from gun makers what barrel bores they use on these handguns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicharrones View Post
I’m starting to think that ammo manufacturers and gun makers must chuckle every time they see these discussions on barrel diameters. Or simply have moved on from worrying about it.

I need to keep some info in my brain as I seem to always forget these specs.

Bullet diameters-

.22 WMR = .224”

.22 LR = .223” to .2255” or simply .224” in the illustration linked below. Seems like leading concerns are why .22 LR barrels are at .223”.

If leading is an indicator of too large a bore for .22 LR, I can say I don’t see much leading in any of my .22s not counting my old Beretta Bobcat.

I wonder how many convertible owners see leading happen quickly and often in their revolvers?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:22_long_rifle.svg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
Well, try the "drill bit" test, if you think there isn't a difference.

https://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/vi...78402&start=15
Quote:
Yes, but we're not measuring at the root of the grooves, we are measuring the "clear bore" at the tips of the lands. These measure .219" for the magnum barrels and .217" for the LR barrels.

A 7/32" bit is .2187" and will JUST slip into the magnum bore but NOT into the LR bore.
That size drill but (new, or with a clean shaft {no burrs}) drops nicely into the muzzle of my 1968 Old Model Single Six convertible (it drops all the way into the mag cylinder), but does NOT go into the muzzle of my 1980 H&R 999 Sportsman (.22LR).


How much difference does .002" make?
The standard diameter for .32 Winchester Special bullets is .321", and the standard diameter for 8mm bullets is .323". I notices some 8mm FMJ bullets in my Father's reloading stuff almost 3 decades ago, and asked why he had them.
His reply was "They work for .32 Spcl loads if you can't find the right bullets, but you need to reduce your powder load between 5% and 10% because the tighter fit adds enough drag to raise the chamber pressure about that much".

Last edited by BlackBat242; 01-13-2022 at 11:43 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2022, 11:25 AM
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Imo the issue in question comes down to if convertible 22's use the 'wider' 22Mag bore or 22LR bore.
If 22Mag bore there is no 'potential' pressure rise as there would be shooting 22Mag jacketed bullets in a tighter 22LR bore dia. If bores and ammo are within .001" dia. that is only '1/2 a thou' on each side. I am personally not afraid of a 'pressure spike' from that. YMMV
Most say the 22Mags shoot pretty well.
Some say the 22LR's not as well, yet recovered bullets show they have fully obturated, filled the bore and have no gas cutting. This is just what we look and hope for in centerfire cast bullet reloading.
And this is consistent with my extensive 22Hornet trials (3k+ handloaded rounds most shot on paper from bench at 50yds) comparing fairly hv jacketed vs reduced velo cast bullets. (I am primarily a 22lr and cast bullet shooter)
Jacketed bullets are pretty forgiving, kick em in the butt, shove em downbore, let some rifling grip and spin em and they go pretty well. Lead, even hard lead, not so much, any bore defect will mess you up, especially in the all-important throat/leade.
My informal bench results showed fairly common 30-50% larger groups size of lead vs jacketed.
Pretty much what my mid-70s(?) Ruger SSS does 22Mag vs 22lr.

Last edited by gcrank1; 01-14-2022 at 11:53 AM.
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2022, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBat242 View Post
Well, try the "drill bit" test, if you think there isn't a difference.

https://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/vi...78402&start=15


That size drill but (new, or with a clean shaft {no burrs}) drops nicely into the muzzle of my 1968 Old Model Single Six convertible (it drops all the way into the mag cylinder), but does NOT go into the muzzle of my 1980 H&R 999 Sportsman (.22LR).


How much difference does .002" make?
The standard diameter for .32 Winchester Special bullets is .321", and the standard diameter for 8mm bullets is .323". I notices some 8mm FMJ bullets in my Father's reloading stuff almost 3 decades ago, and asked why he had them.
His reply was "They work for .32 Spcl loads if you can't find the right bullets, but you need to reduce your powder load between 5% and 10% because the tighter fit adds enough drag to raise the chamber pressure about that much".

I like that link to making a Bearcat a Magnum, as I've been interested in that for some time. Quite a few .22 LR to .22 WMR conversions out there with the original barrels.

I can say that my own 2011 Single Six 9.5" outshoots my 1981 H&R 999 6" using .22 LR. My Single Six has a longer sight radius and better trigger, so that has to be considered. This is known by me before optics were mounted on the Single Six.

Besides all that, I am happy to report that I have yet to shoot drill bits out of my revolvers.

But, I am curious enough that if I happen to have a 7/32" drill bit with a non-burred shank, I'll try that test just for the heck of it.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2022, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcrank1 View Post
Imo the issue in question comes down to if convertible 22's use the 'wider' 22Mag bore or 22LR bore.
If 22Mag bore there is no 'potential' pressure rise as there would be shooting 22Mag jacketed bullets in a tighter 22LR bore dia. If bores and ammo are within .001" dia. that is only '1/2 a thou' on each side. I am personally not afraid of a 'pressure spike' from that. YMMV
Most say the 22Mags shoot pretty well.
Some say the 22LR's not as well, yet recovered bullets show they have fully obturated, filled the bore and have no gas cutting. This is just what we look and hope for in centerfire cast bullet reloading.
And this is consistent with my extensive 22Hornet trials (3k+ handloaded rounds most shot on paper from bench at 50yds) comparing fairly hv jacketed vs reduced velo cast bullets. (I am primarily a 22lr and cast bullet shooter)
Jacketed bullets are pretty forgiving, kick em in the butt, shove em downbore, let some rifling grip and spin em and they go pretty well. Lead, even hard lead, not so much, any bore defect will mess you up, especially in the all-important throat/leade.
My informal bench results showed fairly common 30-50% larger groups size of lead vs jacketed.
Pretty much what my mid-70s(?) Ruger SSS does 22Mag vs 22lr.

"kick em in the butt, shove em downbore" Love it.
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  #27  
Old 01-16-2022, 04:06 PM
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I bought a Heritage Rough Rider convertible with a 6 1/2" barrel a couple months ago. Still checking it out with different ammo but I think it is more accurate with the magnums.
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  #28  
Old 01-16-2022, 06:20 PM
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Is that it 'may be' more accurate with the magnums or that you 'may be' more accurate with it with the magnums?
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2022, 06:50 PM
chicharrones
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I haven't gotten a chance to shoot drill bits, yet. Work, chores, work, chores, work, work. Maybe this coming weekend.

I just wanna go shootin', dagnabit!
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  #30  
Old 01-20-2022, 07:38 PM
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Iíve owned them all. The older rugers and colts were really nice. I finally sold them all off and bought a freedom arms with 3 cylinders. Thereís nothing better to want now.

Iron
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