Cleaning CZ 455 Lilja Barrels carbon ring - question & report - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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Old 05-19-2018, 09:10 AM
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Cleaning CZ 455 Lilja Barrels carbon ring - question & report



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I have a couple of 455 Lilja bull barrels that I have been shooting pretty regularly. I usually run a couple of Hoppes No. 9 wet patches on a weed-whacker line down the barrel after each range outing. The barrels' bores are so highly polished that it usually takes only two of three wet patches for them to come out pretty clean. I had never really deep cleaned the chamber/lede/throat because of those clean patches, and because of the groups I had come to expect from the barrels. HOWEVER . . . (you knew this was coming, right?)

The last time I had one of them at the range, the groups were larger than I expected.... so out came the Lyman borescope. Ugh. Both barrels had pretty good carbon rings built up right where you'd expect. Each rifle probably had around 1,500 rounds through it by this point. I decided that it was time for a deep clean. I actually broke both rifles down to their main component parts, including taking off the barrels. I wrapped the tenons with some masking tape to keep the shims in place.

Then, one barrel got a Kroil soak for a couple of hours, followed by short-stroke cleaning with a patch-wrapped wrapped nylon brush and J&B Bore Paste. The other got Hoppes No. 9 and a similar treatment with Flitz. Then wet patches on weed-whacker line with Hoppes No.9 in both to clean out any paste, followed by dry patches and a light coat of RemOil. The bores now scope clean, with no carbon ring.

Here's the thing: I had to work on the short strokes for a good long while to get the carbon fouling out.

So: my dumb question for the day -- I wonder: has anyone ever chucked up a .22 bore brush in a drill and scrubbed the chamber that way? With the 455 barrels off the actions, it would be easy enough to do. Flitz's website says that its polish doesn't include abrasives, but that has me scratching my head. J&B bore paste definitely includes abrasives -- you can feel it with your fingers. Would cleaning this way change the bore dimensions or are these abrasives gentle enough that the risks are low over the short term? It the thought of Flitz or J&B Bore Paste spinning in your chamber makes you cringe, I'd like to hear it.

I know some folks say that they never, or only rarely, clean their rimfire rifles, but I have to tell you -- seeing is believing for me. That relatively inexpensive Lyman borescope is enough to show you what's going on in the chamber. And once you "see" how easy it is to see it is tough to think about going back to indirect methods of observation like the color of a wet patch exiting the bore or the relative size of groups on target (which, after all might be the shooter's yips as much as anything else).

Addendum: Just on impulse I took the new Vudoo Ravage out of the safe and inspected its chamber. It probably only has 200 rounds down the barrel. Sure enough a carbon ring had started to form there as well. It also got a good scrubbing and its chamber will get more frequent attention from now on.

I know RFC cleaning threads can go on for pages, but I'd be interested in hearing carbon ring prevention/maintenance/cleaning tips from those who've gone down this route. Also: any reaction to the drill idea: shivers, screams, dope-slaps all welcome. ("The horror . . . the horror. . . .)
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:31 AM
Gumshoe
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I have the same problem with the carbon ring in the chamber with my Lilja. I don't clean with a rod anymore - really like the Patch Worm system.

My problem with the carbon ring is that my rifle will not extract a spent case at times. The worse the carbon ring the worse extraction becomes. So I do remove the action from the stock and chuck a pistol rod with a nylon brush for a light cleaning or a bronze brush for a deep clean. I just use Hoppe's No. 9. I have not experienced any issues doing this, but I am very careful while doing it.

Last Sunday outdoor at the range I shot a 200/200 19X with this rifle - so it helped with the accuracy as well.

Last edited by Gumshoe; 05-19-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:33 AM
jaia
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Flang, if I don't brush the chamber each week, I end up with sticky extractions too.
The EPS chamber on my Lilja is so tight, the least bit of carbon ring prevents easy removal of fired brass.
Once a week, after about 100 rounds, only takes a couple minutes to scrub clean.
Once a month, after 400-500 shots, that would be a project.

Last edited by jaia; 05-19-2018 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:17 AM
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Thinking out loud. Slip 2000 Carbon remover does work. And it will remove bluing in a split second. I thought a good bore cleaning and then, with the help of a good bore guide place a tight swab soaked in Slip 2000 and let it sit for an hour and then scrub with a bronze brush, J&B and a patch. Careful is the watchword.
I have CZ rimfires, Win 52 to deal with. The 455 is probably best cleaned out of the action.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:25 PM
Big-Dummy
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I've had good luck with this stuff removing the carbon from the tails of AR15 bolts.

https://www.safariland.com/products/...gs401ksiomkhx7
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:00 PM
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Aaaagh! I am cringing at the thought of spinning a brush with JB in the barrel. I've had some bristles poke through the wrapped patch and it definitely scratched the bore just from short stroking by hand, having it rotate and potentially make contact with the edge of the rifling if you go a little too deep is just a recipe for disaster in my view. If it's going to scratch, better to have it in the direction of bullet travel than to be across it as would occur from rotation.

Keep on top of cleaning your match barrel, with no more than 250 rounds fired between cleanings, and the carbon ring generally comes out without much fuss just from regular brushing of the whole bore. I generally only need to bust out the JB paste when there is the occasional bit of stubborn lead stuck somewhere around the chamber/leade.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:44 PM
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Been waiting for someone to ask the drill question. I have not tried it but it crossed my mind. If spinning a bronze brush is to risky , how about a nylon brush. And also would think a variable speed drill running on the slow side would be better than getting carried away at max speed.
But it is probably like most things in life. If it's easy, it's wrong.
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:45 PM
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Just checking back in on the thread. I have had one conversation this morning with a guy whose opinion I trust. He suggested a solvent soak and then short strokes with a bronze brush. If that doesn't work, chuck the brush in a hand drill and use solvent only. J&B Bore Paste or similar to be used only as a last, last, last resort. Sounds sensible . . .
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by flangster View Post
Just checking back in on the thread. I have had one conversation this morning with a guy whose opinion I trust. He suggested a solvent soak and then short strokes with a bronze brush. If that doesn't work, chuck the brush in a hand drill and use solvent only. J&B Bore Paste or similar to be used only as a last, last, last resort. Sounds sensible . . .
You could also try the Bore tech cham gel. I have been talking with them and they say their abrasives are less aggressive than the competition since they also rely and chemicals to help remove the carbon in addition to abrasives. Supposedly you can use their stuff after every range trip and not ruin your barrel.

I think a good carbon cleaner, bronze brush (I hate the ones that don't have a brass core) and lots of time should clean it up (or the drill to help move things along).

What brush size are you using? I know many have said to use a 243 brush to clean that area.
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:12 PM
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I was using a .223 nylon brush, for what it's worth. It worked well.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R4B1DM4U53 View Post
Aaaagh! I am cringing at the thought of spinning a brush with JB in the barrel. I've had some bristles poke through the wrapped patch and it definitely scratched the bore just from short stroking by hand, having it rotate and potentially make contact with the edge of the rifling if you go a little too deep is just a recipe for disaster in my view. If it's going to scratch, better to have it in the direction of bullet travel than to be across it as would occur from rotation.

A bronze bore brush will SCRATCH barrel steel?
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:34 PM
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A bronze bore brush will SCRATCH barrel steel?
When there is JB bore paste involved, yes it will.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:03 PM
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I have used a bronze brush on a screw drill quite often when the plunk test fails and the extraction/blowback fails to get the cartridge out of the chamber.

I have never seen glass scratch a diamond, and I don't really believe a brass brush will injure barrel steel. Just my opinion, others have many more opinions.

I use the brass brush chucked in a screw drill on slow speed revolutions moving the brush slowly back and forth in the chamber area. Hoppes #9, Hoppes Elite, M-Pro 7, Ballistol, & Weapon Shield have all been used at one time or another, but I have kind of settled in on Hoppes Elite. I have the brush marked so I only go a couple tenths of an inch deeper than the length of the long rifle cartridge. I have used worn out .22 brushes or new .17 cal brushes with steel wool wrapped into the bristles. This holds more cleaner on the brush to enhance break down of the carbon ring and crud in the chamber area. If 4-ought steel wool and oil is used to remove rust without damaging the bluing, I am pretty sure I am not injuring the chamber.

When cleaning the barrel the rod rotates with the rifling. I do not pull the brush back through the barrel because it damages the bristles when the brush is forced to reverse the direction of the bristles within the confines of the barrel. I think that is more of an issue than wondering if I am dragging some crud back down the barrel.

The only time I worry about whether there might be some " residue" in the barrel is when I am prepping the barrel for storage, or when I will be using it again, maybe tomorrow. New patches with a touch of CLP or cleaner of your choice are run through the barrel until clean patches result. It is good to go, or good to store.

Just my routine, and I do the same on my shotguns to remove the hull plastic from the chambers and barrels for storage until the next time.

I guess everyone adds at this point, ymmv.

VH
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:42 PM
Big-Dummy
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Acetone is good for removing wad plastic from shotgun barrels. Just keep it away from the stock.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:59 PM
varmit hunter67
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Acetone is good for removing wad plastic from shotgun barrels. Just keep it away from the stock.


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