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  #1  
Old 07-14-2021, 09:31 PM
DMTJAGER

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Question concerning BR divisions



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I am just starting out in 22lr BR shooting and are going to do so in the factory class.


I have known for decades about the ultra off the charts accurate 22lr bolt guns and their also just as off the charts prices that can range form and entry level cost of $2.5k to well over $5k and that is NOT including optics which can easily add another $1.5K-$2k++ to the cost of your rig.

Factory class strikes me as a straight forward class in terms of rifle technology because of the maximum $1k rifle cost limiting factor.

But how does one compete in the unlimited class if all you can afford is $2K for a rifle and optic if the guy/gal sitting next to you is shooting a Remington 40X, or Anschutz that their scope costs more than your entire rig and their rifle and scope combined could easily cost as much as your rig, and all your shooting equipment combined?

My point being and again I am admittedly a complete novice but I do not see how a one person shooting a lower end BR 22lr rig can ever hope to win any matches if they have to compete against top shelf rifles and optics, with the rifle being the biggest barrio to overcome.

Have I missed something? Please anyone feel free to correct and educate me but unless I'm wrong there seems to be only two categories of 22lr bench rest classes, factory and Unlimited.
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:05 AM
vlnbyr

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This is the typical thinking of those who have never been to matches. First it is possible to get a competitive rifle and optic for 2K. Not easy or common but they are out there. Secondly if you want to win your rifle isn't the barrier you have to overcome, it's elevating your skill level above those of the rest of the field. Third the Rem 40X, Win 52, and Anschutz rifles aren't competitive in any big time Unlimited 22lr BR.
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  #3  
Old 07-15-2021, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
This is the typical thinking of those who have never been to matches. First it is possible to get a competitive rifle and optic for 2K. Not easy or common but they are out there. Secondly if you want to win your rifle isn't the barrier you have to overcome, it's elevating your skill level above those of the rest of the field. Third the Rem 40X, Win 52, and Anschutz rifles aren't competitive in any big time Unlimited 22lr BR.
So if I'm to understand you correctly I can compete against a $2500 Vudoo topped with a $2k NF or $1.1K SIII with for example a CZ457 Varmint Precision trainer topped wit a >$500 Arken SH4 if I have the marksmanship capabilities, use top quality match ammo and put forth the effort to get good enough?

If indeed true, and I have no doubt you know where of you speek, you have not only done me no small favor in educating me about 22lr BR but have given me reason to be hopeful as I can afford a CZ457 VPT and a sub $1k optic to compete in the not at all distant future but it will be not until my sons finish collage in 6 years time I could even dare to think of spending on a Vudoo or similarly priced rifle and a $1k+ optic. I admit the optic is likely less important then the shooter all things being equal.

I also asked because when I was at my rifle clubs 22lr BR shoot I saw rifles there I know were under $800 like CZ 457 MTR's and other rifles I didn't recognize that I was told when asked cost (rifle only) $3K+, and was told by those shooting if I wanted to stay with these shooters I had better be prepared to spend some $$$. Admittedly I didn't ask for a clarification on what that meant. I took it to mean a factory class 22lr rifle (which is all I can afford right now) was not going to have much a chance at being competitive.

I incorrectly assumed then and now that factory class 22lr BR rifles were similar to factory class CF rifles in that they have little chance of achieving the accuracy of their full on custom rifle counterparts.

I stand corrected, and thank you for the correction.

Last edited by DMTJAGER; 07-15-2021 at 01:28 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2021, 03:16 PM
Dennis D
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Factory class

There is a Factory class for precisely that reason, they will not be competitive with a true top of the line unlimited BR gun. Yes there is the very ultra rare Unicorn factory gun that is capable of such accuracy but you'd have better luck finding an actual Unicorn on the podium of a national level match. Aside from pure accuracy is ease of use and consistent performance. That's not to say you can't best some shooters using custom guns and there is certainly some satisfaction in doing that. The rest of the skills of setup, gun handling, ammo selection and reading conditions are the same no matter what class you shoot and are just as important at the top level of any class.
As for scopes. Any scope that has reliable fine adjustments and holds point of aim works. I still have Weaver T36's mounted on some of my custom guns and can't say I could ever blame them for me losing a point on a target. The T6 is still an excellent scope for IR50/50 sporter class rifles limited to 6X.

Dennis
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Old 07-15-2021, 03:26 PM
vlnbyr

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You will do well to not mix up Unlimited and Factory. Other than being ARA they have little in common. If you are shooting Factory then don't get into the cost factor etc. associated with Unlimited. If you are talking about Unlimited then yes there is a basic cost factor but it doesn't have to be outrageous. Once you actually go to a match you will maybe have a better idea what we are talking about.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2021, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTJAGER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlnbyr View Post
This is the typical thinking of those who have never been to matches. First it is possible to get a competitive rifle and optic for 2K. Not easy or common but they are out there. Secondly if you want to win your rifle isn't the barrier you have to overcome, it's elevating your skill level above those of the rest of the field. Third the Rem 40X, Win 52, and Anschutz rifles aren't competitive in any big time Unlimited 22lr BR.
So if I'm to understand you correctly I can compete against a $2500 Vudoo topped with a $2k NF or $1.1K SIII with for example a CZ457 Varmint Precision trainer topped wit a >$500 Arken SH4 if I have the marksmanship capabilities, use top quality match ammo and put forth the effort to get good enough?

If indeed true, and I have no doubt you know where of you speek, you have not only done me no small favor in educating me about 22lr BR but have given me reason to be hopeful as I can afford a CZ457 VPT and a sub $1k optic to compete in the not at all distant future but it will be not until my sons finish collage in 6 years time I could even dare to think of spending on a Vudoo or similarly priced rifle and a $1k+ optic. I admit the optic is likely less important then the shooter all things being equal.

I also asked because when I was at my rifle clubs 22lr BR shoot I saw rifles there I know were under $800 like CZ 457 MTR's and other rifles I didn't recognize that I was told when asked cost (rifle only) $3K+, and was told by those shooting if I wanted to stay with these shooters I had better be prepared to spend some $$$. Admittedly I didn't ask for a clarification on what that meant. I took it to mean a factory class 22lr rifle (which is all I can afford right now) was not going to have much a chance at being competitive.

I incorrectly assumed then and now that factory class 22lr BR rifles were similar to factory class CF rifles in that they have little chance of achieving the accuracy of their full on custom rifle counterparts.

I stand corrected, and thank you for the correction.
https://www.killoughshootingsports.c...rifle-kit.html

For only $1150 you can start competing in the factory class 😂🤣😂. I mean, if only there were cheaper alternatives to get people into the sport....(older Winchester, Remington, marlin, etc that aren't allowed but can be bought for a few hundred bucks)
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Old 07-17-2021, 09:32 AM
Njjr
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There are many aspects of competing. Even those with custom rifles need great shooting rests. To me, the rest can take an OK rifle and turn it into an outstanding rifle.

I know it is overkill, but I use a Seb Neo front rest and have several rear rests I use depending on the shape of the stock. When I pull the trigger, I am assured of an absolute stable rifle. After the trigger squeeze, you merely have to push the rifle forward and it will return to battery with the same sight picture. It's up to the ammunition after that.
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Old 07-17-2021, 09:55 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Originally Posted by Njjr View Post
There are many aspects of competing. Even those with custom rifles need great shooting rests. To me, the rest can take an OK rifle and turn it into an outstanding rifle.

I know it is overkill, but I use a Seb Neo front rest and have several rear rests I use depending on the shape of the stock. When I pull the trigger, I am assured of an absolute stable rifle. After the trigger squeeze, you merely have to push the rifle forward and it will return to battery with the same sight picture. It's up to the ammunition after that.
Wow is it really that simple, that the rest is the most important?

Lee
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2021, 10:04 AM
Hi-NV Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnymango View Post
https://www.killoughshootingsports.c...rifle-kit.html

For only $1150 you can start competing in the factory class 😂🤣😂. I mean, if only there were cheaper alternatives to get people into the sport....(older Winchester, Remington, marlin, etc that aren't allowed but can be bought for a few hundred bucks)
There is a reason to limit rifles to what can be easily found and bought. the rifles you mentioned can be found but they are not readily available.
this also limits the idea that more money spent will mean more success, factory is meant to be entry level and puts emphasis on shooter skill.
no one can readily dominate shooting a 50+year old rifle that most will be hard press to find.
again eliminates the need to chase equipment. chasing ammo is the same regardless of class.

Lee
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Old 07-17-2021, 12:37 PM
DMTJAGER

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnymango View Post
https://www.killoughshootingsports.c...rifle-kit.html

For only $1150 you can start competing in the factory class 😂🤣😂. I mean, if only there were cheaper alternatives to get people into the sport....(older Winchester, Remington, marlin, etc that aren't allowed but can be bought for a few hundred bucks)
I commend you on making known such a great way to enter into factory class so easily.
Such a package deal would've been great for me except I already have a Bald eagle Windage rest, Protector rear bag and several other dedicated range bags.

In my case all I needed to get into factory class was a rifle, scope and ammo. I even had several different sets of 30mm and 1" scope rings on hand. As I already own five other 22lr rifles and two 22lr pistols all I added to my cleaning kit was a T1X specific Bore Tec Bore Guide I already have a butt load of 20cal cleaning jags and brushes.
If I had wished to really stay economical I could have just used my 4.5-14x40mm WGS, but opted for a used but LNIB Hawke Sidewinder 30 8.5-25x42mm for the same price as a Mueller.

I think I'm like most who choose factory class to begin competing in 22lr bench in that we are just wanting to do a lot of shooting and are more geared towards fun and driven by our love to shoot than winning matches or getting trophies.

Last edited by DMTJAGER; 07-17-2021 at 12:45 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2021, 01:36 PM
Lloyd S.
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If you think rifles & scopes are expensive just wait'll you start buying match grade ammo by the case.
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Old 07-17-2021, 02:09 PM
DMTJAGER

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Originally Posted by Lloyd S. View Post
If you think rifles & scopes are expensive just wait'll you start buying match grade ammo by the case.
Yeah.....................
Found that out less than 10 minuets into my first ever search for "lowest price for Lapua 22lr match ammo"

I will be paying more for 50 rounds of 22lr match ammo than I can reload my match grade 308 Winchester using Lapua brass, Federal GMM LRG/RFL primers and either/both Sierra 177MK or Burger's equivalent.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2021, 02:24 PM
DMTJAGER

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Originally Posted by Hi-NV Shooter View Post
There is a reason to limit rifles to what can be easily found and bought. the rifles you mentioned can be found but they are not readily available.
this also limits the idea that more money spent will mean more success, factory is meant to be entry level and puts emphasis on shooter skill.
no one can readily dominate shooting a 50+year old rifle that most will be hard press to find.
again eliminates the need to chase equipment. chasing ammo is the same regardless of class.

Lee
This is JMO, but skill will ALWAYS be the deciding factor. A pro golfer of above average skill but still short of being gifted can not become as successful or compete with truly gifted golfer by simply being given the gold clubs used by the truly gifted.

I feel same applies to almost any equipment oriented sport, in that the best competitors are the best because they ARE the best, and not because they have the best equipment.

Again LMO.
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