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22 Plinkster tried to be positive about the Summit.

20K views 27 replies 17 participants last post by  grg 
#1 · (Edited)
But it was easy to see he was disappointed in its performance. There was no hiding the poor groups it produced despite the Federal Ultramatch, which I have found to be excellent ammo, he was using. For the price the performance was very poor I feel.

 
#4 ·
Did you see what barrel he was shooting in it? Wasn't exactly a match grade steel target barrel. The heart of the Summit is just the funky receiver. Put any barrel in it you want to. His setup wasn't exactly a 1 holer at 50 type. If you wanted that type of action, the Summit to me looks like a way to get a Browning T-Bolt type action and be able to customize it shoot incredible.

That being said, no way I would pay VQ prices for a Summit and put any type of lightweight sleeved barrel on it. Money wasted unless I just wanted a lightweight rig with a weird bolt that shot just ok. When I first saw the gun in the video, I was kind of wondering what the purpose of that barrel on it was all about. He's also big on the VQ Trigger as well, which from all I've ever read on here is kind of a way to pay more money for something not as good as the Kidd single stage. Thus, that one is totally out for me, despite the neat looking VQ trigger guard around it.
 
#5 ·
I haven't watched the video yet, i will soon. I do have 2 of the PWS summit actions. One is built with a VQ HM2 barrel and one with a VQ carbon barrel. Both are very accurate. The HM2 is stupid accurate. It will easily out shoot my Sako Quad with the HM2 barrel. I love the fast action of the summit. It works very well.
 
#6 ·
I have owned many Volquartsen parts and a few rifles. My only hangup with purchasing a summit is it's aluminum. For close to $500 it should be steel. The price is not that competitive with bolt actions. I prefer the weight balance of steel, not to mention it will last a lifetime. I suppose the high quality aluminum they use would hold up nearly as well. However, all the VQ rifles I own/owned are/were stainless.

I can buy a CZ 455 Varmint for the price of a summit. I'm not knocking it, but I cant justify it. .

Sure Shot
 
#7 ·
I’m not happy with mine. Can’t get better than 1”@50 and I’ve tried over 10 different loads of ammo. On my second one as the first was replaced under warranty within a month. Another guy I shoot with also brought one. It wouldn’t shoot, had it replaced under warranty and upgraded to the stainless barrel. Also couldn’t get it to shoot better than .9moa....... one group. And because one group came in just under Moa....... no warranty! This is sold as a match rifle, “ Tack driver” ......... my 4ss! Worse part is, try talk to Scott Volquartsen and you get........crickets........ nothing. Certainly puts a bad taste in your mouth wasting money on them.
 
#8 ·
I have summits in both .17m2 and .22lr. They are both easily as accurate as any I have owned and that includes my Annie's and a Cooper. They both have the tension barrels. I have owned a lot of VQ guns both HEAVY stainless and carbon tensioned. Accuracy is equal. Only edge I would give the stainless barrel is the weight makes it easier to steady on a bench.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9 · (Edited)
I so wish mine would shoot. Absolutely love the concept and it's about as close as we can get on Standard licences here in Australia. I find it hard to believe it shoots better than an Anschutz........ my Annie with SK flat (pink box) is a real tack driver.......and I mean 5 rds in to one tight ragged hole @30m.

How do you post pics on here.

Update 15th June

Well it finally looks like she's starting to shoot. Only tested at 25y but shooting .1-.2 5rd groups with SK red. Maybe the barrels aren't hand lapped and take around 500rds to run in.
 
#11 ·
This action is made for 17hmr and 17hm2 shooting imho.

Lightweight, fast cycling hunting rounds that need to shoot 1 MOA at 75 yards.

I had a summit (PWS). And it was 22lr but I had to cycle it fast. The PWS barrel was ammo picky too.

I will say the PWS trigger was amazing
 
#14 · (Edited)
This action is made for 17hmr and 17hm2 shooting imho.

Lightweight, fast cycling hunting rounds that need to shoot 1 MOA at 75 yards.

I had a summit (PWS). And it was 22lr but I had to cycle it fast. The PWS barrel was ammo picky too.

I will say the PWS trigger was amazing
i have to agree about the trigger. I've now got both the VQ and PWS. The VQ has creep and Sh1ts me where's the PWS brakes clean...... very frustrating since the VQ cost me double +

 
#12 ·
That's a slick deal. I like the bit about being able to use 10/22 parts throughout.

The accuracy I see there in the video puts it ahead of most 22 bolt actions right out of the gate. Now add the ability to play with different match barrels and match chambers - seems like a winner.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I picked up a very early Summit action at Brownells and used it to build an hm2. After having the problems that were there on the early actions with the bolt linkage breaking, all is working fine now. The bolt face is cut at .043" and if the barrel is shimmed properly the action is super smooth, easy and quiet. My Browning Tbolt after doing a lot of work on it is fairly quiet but still takes a lot of force to work the bolt in comparison to the Summit.

As far as accuracy I have had two barrels on my Summit in hm2, a Volquartsen and a ER Shaw with both barrels the Summit has shot right with my custom Rem 581 and TC R55 rifles. I haven't tried a 22lr barrel yet as I'm not a 10/22 guy and don't have any barrels but plan on getting one. I think the Summit action is really a hunting type action. If looking for target accuracy I believe I would stick with a bolt or single shot of other styles but that's just me.

If you want a nice quiet quick acting hunting rifle the Summit is great. If you buy used and it is a very early gun, ask if it has been up graded with the new bolt linkage. It is made much thicker with different material and works great. If it hasn't been , you will have problems. Volquartsen is a great company and stands behind their products. Scott was super to deal with and as a matter of fact he had one of the first new parts sent out to me as soon as they were made, it hadn't even been color treated yet which I said was ok. They through the entire ordeal (remember this was a new product for them) always offered to Buy the action back and always picked up all shipping costs. They never tried to say I was doing something wrong and admitted that they might have to make some changes.

Let me add that if your action starts to get hard to work and you loose accuracy it's a good chance the linkage has cracked and is starting to bend. The headspace will open up and before it breaks if the headspace is to excessive you stand a chance of blowing out your mag just like the 10/22 hm2 fiasco. This has nothing to do with the hm2 cartridge, it is the headspace. The changes they made eliminates this problem.

Would I buy another, yes but would probably be for a 22 build. It is expensive but I like it.

Just wanted to add that I went with a BX trigger and love it. I am fortunate in being close to Brownells so I went to the store and had them bring 10 triggers to the counter. I went through all of them and picked what I felt was the nicest trigger,I think it ended up being around 2 1/2lbs and cost $50 on sale. I had been thinking about a Kidd, for a hunting rifle I went the right way for me.
 

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#18 ·
Interesting little post from a guy here in Australia on the PWS T3’s

PWS T3s
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Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:05 pm

Many of you have either come across or have heard of the PWS T3s, Summits etc. You would have also heard mixed views regarding accuracy, ejection etc.
Many of you would also know i have screwed around with rimfires for BR50 and HunterClass etc and some would have seen the dual pin front locking WEC rifle i built over 20 years ago. Never in all my years of beating my head with a house brick have i come across a more frustrating rifle than the PWS T3. I have become extremely lazy since i bought the T1x and expect every rimfire on the market to shoot like it.

Let me help those of you that have a T3 now that i have dragged one of mine out of the reject safe.

Extraction issues. Simple fix any smith can help you with so i won't waste time.

Ejection. As above.

Accuracy issues. This is the number one real issue with these rifles. The carbon tension tube needs to be dumped and replaced with an alloy one. The reason is because of resonance. Something i have gone into great detail with stretcher tubes over many years where titanium and carbon fibre should never be used because of the inconsistent way they deal with resonance. It is for very good reason that state of the art carbon fibre BR stocks have both or either balsa or cedar to deal with the issue, or in the case of long range BR, use laminate stocks. I will add that while i strongly advocate the benefits of stretcher tubes (aluminium only) on a centerfire rifle, they absolutely categorically without any exception i have ever seen, do not work on a rimfire. As such the only thing they do on the T3 is look cool. Fashion over function at work again.

Headspace. This is confusing if you go to youtube etc in search of cures to misfires and poor grouping. If the bolt face touches the barrel tenon when locked up, this is the death knell for accuracy and POI shift as temp varies. You do not ever want the shock wave of a hammer or firing pin (both in a T3) strike travelling up and down the barrel, especially in something as pedestrian as a 22 lr. The best way to do this is to jam the bolt face into the tenon. Instant death.
Now this is where it gets hairy but is most important. The correct cartridge rim headspace for a 22 lr should be around 42 thou. The problem is that the bolt face to where the cartridge case recess is exceeds this in every T3 i have measured. To fix this the bolt face has to be machined to give around 30 thou rim recess depth. The remaining 12 thou is set by the barrel tenon depth, either by shimming or machining the shoulder.
When all this is done the toggle and bolt closed on an empty chamber should cycle tension free, preventing the known toggle link arms and pivot bearing failure. Ideally a chambered cartridge should just have the tiniest amount of feel. If you cannot cycle the action with the forefinger alone, you have an issue of the bolt face, extractor or ejector jamming into the tennon. One or all has to be alleviated. This should fix 90% of T3 accuracy issues, but not all.
The chamber. I have looked at a number of T3s with a bore scope. The one that shot well had a neat throat, not great, just OK for a factory jobbie. The others looked like the reamer was blunt or was used dry as the leade had flatted lands with an overhanging burr on the trailing side. This causes a land to cut a wide groove on the bullet that allows gas blow by leading to erratic velocity thus vertical spread. Also as gas vents unevenly at the bullets base at the muzzle, it causes bullet dispersion. Combine both issues and two, three or four inch groups at fifty yards are the norm and many owners of these rifles say as much. The only fix, generally, is another barrel because the unique method of barrel clamping, same as Ruger 10/22s, means you cannot set back the chamber.
Those that are rebarrelled still need the other stuff fixed or it's status quo. I do have a couple of very long half degree forcing cone type reamers to try and clean these throats up, but whatever reamer was used at the factory is very short of being a match chamber and is not that successful.

I have heard some rather bad comments about the triggers. I have no idea what the standard trigger is on the range of these rifles, but on my own i have found it to be adjustable from 4 ounce to a few pounds without creep or too much over travel. They are in my view the best from factory trigger i have played with”

Kind of makes sense when you look at it that way.
 
#19 ·
Treefeller, very interesting comments on the headspace issue. My bolt face has the rim recessed at .043 and shoots right in there with my other hm2 rifles. I have a few 22lr barrel blanks and used barrels sitting and keep thinking about trying one of these in my Summit, I may do this and see what the accuracy is. Next step may be go towards milling the bolt face and trying what you discuss here as it makes perfect sense. I would assume the firing pin would also need to be shortened the same amount to eliminate the contact with the barrel. This is the same way I do my other barrels, that is on the Remington 581's I build. They have no recess in the bolt face and so there is no issue with contacting the barrel tenon if set up properly.

I also like to glue my barrels in, have you done that on an aluminium receiver and is it reversible?
 
#20 ·
I’ve not tried to glue one in. At the moment on the VQ I’ve got about .04mm gap, bolt to barrel with 4 shims in. If I add another shim it will be .09mm which might be on the excessive side. I’m wondering if the duel extractors contacting the barrel will have much of an impact as that’s the cause of the only resistance I can feel on lock up. Also see the bolt move sideways when the 1st extractor contacts the barrel. Think I just need to shoot it a bit more and try work it out. My Anschutz 64MPR has spoiled me I think.
 
#21 ·
Everybody wants to be a star....



I've tried sitting through his videos before. He shows himself more than the topic.

That video could have been done in three minutes instead of twelve minutes. I had to fast-forward and skip through it to get to the meaningful parts.

I prefer the videos where the narrator doesn't need to fill the video with himself...Tom
 
#22 ·
I had my mind set on the Summit in 17M2 when it was first introduced. After doing a little more research I decided to pass. The toggle system is a great and easy way to cycle the rounds. What changed my mind is all the pivot points that’s pinned. I could be totally wrong but these areas are going to wear from usage. That would change the head space tolerance and require re-shimming the barrel. For the amount of money I’m going to wait until some long term results come in before re-considering.
 
#23 ·
Well the VQ is shooting a lot better each time I take it out. Trigger was sh1t1ng me but VQ sent me a new hammer and sear which when instmade the trigger feel like it was made of marshmallows. I stoned the original trigger and sear a little on the contact points and now it’s lost that creep....... awesome. Still a little heavy for target work but I’ve got no issues shooting MOA @200m (well ducks heads..... lol). The PWS I’ve also got has issues though. Had the linkage replaced after braking. Now I’ve got growing head space/ barrel to bolt space. Last time I measured it it was 0.135mm now after a about 80rds it’s 0.440mm and getting lots of failures to fire.
 
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