Light strikes? Maybe, maybe not. - Page 6 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:02 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,536
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)


Log in to see fewer ads
I hear ya' TS.
I'm chasing possible causes and anything that interferes with proper seating is suspect.
If ya' have an inexpensive mass produced 22lr rifle or pistol, combinations of problems
together would lead to repeated ftf's. Just looking for possibilities.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:56 AM
Domino
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Mar 2014
Location: 
OH
Posts: 
134
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
If you have a carbon ring build up then can't you just do a plop test with the barrel? If the barrel does not pass the plop test then look at it with a bore scope.

I am use to a S&W Model 41 where the barrel can be easily removed for the plop test and if this another firearm where that is not so easy then use the bore scope right out of the gate.

I have a bore scope and it is invaluable if you are serious about shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:51 AM
jcc273

Join Date: 
Dec 2018
Location: 
Massachusetts
Posts: 
111
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
I have 5 .22lr firearms. If a brand or product has a problem in one of my guns I just don't use it in that gun. If it has a problem in all of my guns I don't use that product. If one of my guns has a problem with a lot of brands/products I try to fix my gun.

I assume handling is handling - all packages get treated/stored badly at one time or another, so I'll give any company more than one chance. But I don't see any reason to try to fix my firearms if there are brands that consistently work well and others don't.

One product in particular gave me the impression there was no primer in ~2% of the cases from 2 different lots. I took ~10 of them apart, I did not find primer in the powder I dumped, the cases looked clean inside, and nothing happened when I completely flattened the rims with a hammer.

I don't really care if there actually was primer in the case, for one reason or another, it did not work when there was no problem with other brands.

-Jim
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 07-01-2020, 04:24 PM
KeisiMekaigo is online now

Join Date: 
Nov 2018
Posts: 
79
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Not all strikes can be seen perfectly in the pictures. But some of them are not light strikes without doubt.
IMHO there´s no way to move primer in well made ammo, not even dropping it. Why? Cause it has nowhere to go. Primer only can move to a exist hole, leaving that hole in its previous site. If every element is in his place, there´s no way to change them.
Primer leaves a hole only if it has a hole to go to.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:00 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,536
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Pull the bullet from a 22lr and look inside.
It's not a compacted powder bullet seating.
There's a bit of room...enough for primer to leave the rim.
If it ain't in the rim, it won't go bang.

Had to go give it a try it just now, to check before running my mouth.
If you shake an unfired SK 22lr cartridge, you can hear the powder rattle.
There's room in the cartridge. Try it y'erself.

Last edited by jaia; 07-01-2020 at 05:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 07-02-2020, 02:38 AM
Gizzy
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Aug 2006
Location: 
Ohio
Posts: 
18,430
TPC Rating: 
100% (150)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Pull the bullet from a 22lr and look inside.
It's not a compacted powder bullet seating.
There's a bit of room...enough for primer to leave the rim.
If it ain't in the rim, it won't go bang.

Had to go give it a try it just now, to check before running my mouth.
If you shake an unfired SK 22lr cartridge, you can hear the powder rattle.
There's room in the cartridge. Try it y'erself.

Sorry but you are wrong. All of the powder can be up next to the bullet and none touching the priming compound, but, that compound creates enough of a spark to ignite any powder in that case.

People have been shooting matches for years, and not have a fail to fire.... ever.... and their ammo is kept in a box, bullet end down, which means no powder at the priming end, and the remove it from their, usually wooden case, then straight into the chamber it goes.

ITS NOT THE AMMO.....
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 07-02-2020, 06:26 AM
Triggershoe
NRA Member - Click Here To Join! GOA Member

Join Date: 
Feb 2016
Location: 
Northeast Ohio
Posts: 
493
TPC Rating: 
100% (9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizzy View Post
Sorry but you are wrong. All of the powder can be up next to the bullet and none touching the priming compound, but, that compound creates enough of a spark to ignite any powder in that case.

People have been shooting matches for years, and not have a fail to fire.... ever.... and their ammo is kept in a box, bullet end down, which means no powder at the priming end, and the remove it from their, usually wooden case, then straight into the chamber it goes.

ITS NOT THE AMMO.....



So Giz, when you take the cartridge from the vertical (out of the box), and then orient it horizontally to insert the round into the chamber, do you still think there is no powder AT ALL against the priming compound around the rim? Not even at the 6 o'clock position? Just thinkin' out load here.... Perhaps it IS the rifle, I don't know, but the FP strikes shown by jaia look to be pretty strong. Just sayin'...
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 07-02-2020, 06:47 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,536
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
G'mornin' Gizzy.

Poor phrasing on my part.
Supposed to be two different thoughts

1) Pull the bullet from a 22lr and look inside.
It's not a compacted powder bullet seating.


2)There's a bit of room...enough for primer to leave the rim.
If it (the primer) ain't in the rim, it won't go bang.

Better?


I've been reading, in an effort to chip away at my ignorance,
about the causes of fail to fire, and all the articles have stated
that primer missing from the rim is not uncommon. Rough handling,
poor primer mixing/application and major temperature changes
all can break the adhesion between the primer material and the brass.
Once the primer has loosened from the rim, a pin strike at that point
won't cause ignition. It happens.

Speaking of rough handling...UPS dropped off my package from Killough's.



Looks like they dropped it so it landed on the bottom corner.
I wonder if it was from waist height?

Last edited by jaia; 07-02-2020 at 06:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 07-02-2020, 08:40 AM
jcc273

Join Date: 
Dec 2018
Location: 
Massachusetts
Posts: 
111
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
My second package from Killough's (10 Eley Action rec packs) was dented at one corner so badly that it broke/distorted two of the black plastic boxes the ammo comes in. The tops could not be slid into the groves anymore and the internal tray could not sit flat.

The bullets in those boxes looked fine - no noticable damage to them. All 100 rounds in those boxes fed, fired, and ejected and actually came pretty close to what I was aiming at

Could be some priming methods/materials are better than others? How did yours do?

-Jim
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:45 AM
zukiphile
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2002
Location: 
ohio
Posts: 
1,235
TPC Rating: 
100% (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
I've been reading, in an effort to chip away at my ignorance,
about the causes of fail to fire, and all the articles have stated
that primer missing from the rim is not uncommon.
I assume that is true when I am shooting something like a RGB and using a rifle with a very firm strike. I can usually rotate it and it fires. Rarely, I'll rotate it three or four times before I give up. Outside of RGB, ignition failure are rare in my rifles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Rough handling,
poor primer mixing/application and major temperature changes
all can break the adhesion between the primer material and the brass.
Once the primer has loosened from the rim, a pin strike at that point
won't cause ignition. It happens.
But why does it happen to you so much? Not trying to give you a hard time, but what are the odds that the brother of the girls you dated but didn't marry sees nearly all your deliveries, sticks them in a freezer, then puts them in the sun before he kicks it all the way to your house?

If you have anything as pedestrian as a 10/22 with a full power hammer spring, I wonder if the next time you have a lot of ignition failure in your good rifle, you could send 20 or 25 into the berm from a known, hard hitting pin.

If I could shoot as well as you do at the distances you do with the very fine rifle you have and I were plagued by ignition failures, I'd be very frustrated.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:47 AM
KeisiMekaigo is online now

Join Date: 
Nov 2018
Posts: 
79
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
Looks like they dropped it so it landed on the bottom corner.
I wonder if it was from waist height?
it´s more like my 200 pound dog have sitting on top of it. The only brand that guarantees me at least one cartridge failed to fire every 50 rounds is Winchester. If a drop has all the blame, shouldn´t you find more than three cartridges failed to fire?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:08 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,536
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Package arrived Monday, 3 bricks of Eley,...hopefully range this weekend.
See what happens. Taking 3 rifles, 2 pistols so it'll be a smorgasbord of springs and firing pins.

It's not just me finding these problem cartridges.
It has happened to a couple of the local benchrest guys as well.
Better rimfire rifles than mine, Anschutz and custom Martini.
Common element has been on line retail purchases and UPS/FedEx delivery.

Someone has to be the trouble magnet and it appears to be me.
Karma getting even for all my wize-adzedness.

Last edited by jaia; 07-02-2020 at 10:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:21 PM
Al the Infidel's Avatar
Al the Infidel
US Marines Disabled American Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2007
Location: 
Yoopersville, MI
Posts: 
1,013,945
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
G'mornin' Gizzy.

Poor phrasing on my part.
I read you right, no primer in the rim where the pin hits means no snap, crack, pop, or bang. Right?

I saw a vid a couple years ago where the delivery guy sailed a thin screen tv or monitor over a security fence like a big frisbee. Just think what they do day after day, week after week, etc etc. when loading and unloading big n small boxes at how many stops? before final whac-a-mole to Jala's door.
__________________
Wash your hands, wear a mask indoors, and use your brain, please. Grandma and grandpa thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-02-2020, 05:26 PM
Michael62

Join Date: 
Mar 2019
Location: 
Springdale, Arkansas
Posts: 
34
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Jaia, I ran into a similar issue as you a couple of months ago. 99% of my ammo is mail order as well, and one of my boxes of ammo looked like it had been drop shipped out of a 747 . 👀 I had no issues with the ammo except for 1 rifle that had several failure to fires. The firing pin strike looked good to me, but wasn’t as indented as the ones from other guns. I should also say the problem wasn’t with just one batch of ammo, and this rifle has done it since it was new. I changed out the barrel and firing pin to a good aftermarket brand, and still had the same problem.
What I ended up doing was inspecting how far the firing pin would pertrude from the bolt when hit by the hammer, and it looked like it would not go as deep as I would like for it to. Did a little machining on the pin, and it hasn’t missed a beat since.
I will also say some of the ammo would fire if you tried it again and some wouldn’t.
What I found is on those that would never fire off was the first hit that didn’t hit hard enough to ignite it would knock all the primmer loose, and it was junk after that.
I think you have a gun issue, but could be wrong😬
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-03-2020, 05:35 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,536
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Maybe Mike, maybe not.

Previous discussion of missing primer.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...t=553581&amp=1
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 PM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x