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  #1  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:20 AM
Hank15

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Red dot for steel challenge



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I just picked up a Buckmark Contour URX 5.5"...with the $100 rebate and Communist tax it ended up being just shy of $400 out the door.

I want to pick up a red dot for steel challenge - what dot size would you recommend?

Also, I can be clumsy, so something that's durable with a good warranty is a plus.

Thanks
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:35 AM
chim
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Congratulations on the Contour. Although I've been shooting in competitions since the mid 90's , it has been almost exclusively bullseye. I have done some PPC, pins and other speed events as fun things with handguns pulled from the safe and pressed into service for a day or two. There are no task-specific guns for steel in our house. Someone here who gravitates toward steel shooting can give you better advice.

I've used both open sights and dots on semi-autos and revolvers. Most of the targets were so close that the challenge was speed in target acquisition rather than precision. Some of us bullseye shooters joke that when we get too old to hit the 10-ring with some frequency it'll be time to take up steel shooting.

The one thing I can tell you is that for me, target acquisition is faster with a tube type red dot. I have a number of holo sights and when used on a handgun they are slower than a tube type dot. If I ever get into steel, my starting point will be with a big bright tube type red dot.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2018, 06:56 AM
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I don't shoot steel particularly, but I'd echo the advice about dot acquisition in a tube sight. I have been using an AT3 Tactical. 2 MOA dot, excellent battery life, and quite rugged. Pleased with it so far.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2018, 08:06 AM
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HI Hank!

I am a bullseye shooter that sometimes wanders into a shoot and scoot competition. What I have seen is that most bullseye shooters have a tube style red dot and the shoot and scooters have a reflex.

They primarily use a C-More reflex sight in the larger dot sizes, 6 or 8 MOA.

Personally, I prefer a tube style red dot, I use the frame to line up the pistol for quick target acquisition.

Most bullseye shooters use 4 MOA dots although there is a significant minority that uses the 2 MOA. Personally, I started with a 2 MOA and occasionally got inflicted with the dreaded "Chicken Finger" affliction which prompted me to switch to a 4 MOA on my primary bullseye pistol.

With that being said, you need to take a close look at the Ultra Dot Match Dot II sight. It is a tube style sight and it has a adjustable dot size. I think the newer ones even have cross hairs or reticle dots as well. I personally own two match dot II and really like them. They are on my model 41 and my FWB.


ULtra Dot sights are high quality and a bit pricey but I highly recommend them. I have had trouble with teammates purchasing other brand name red dots and not being able to zero them or they really do not track that well. I have two old ultra dots that I keep on hand to loan to new shooters for when they start having problems and cannot figure it out. You would be surprised at the brand name red dots I have used that really do not track consistently whereas the Ultra Dots, I can zero them easily by walking them to the center of the target, each click results in a definite, positive, and consistent adjustment of the zero of the scope.


While you might be able to save a couple bucks getting used on ebay or such, check out the prices from Ultra Dot itself. even with shipping they are usually cheaper then the other suppliers.


By the way, for what it is worth, I shoot a aimpoint on my primary gun (pardini) whereas my ultra dots are on my secondary and play firearms. The aimpoints are a little bit better then the ultra dots but more then double the cost.


Regards,

Crankster
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:42 AM
bpoletti
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I have used cheapo CVLife open hologram sights. Not quick in acquisition, but reliable. I like them for plinking and basic target out to 13 yds or so.

Because the sight mounts so high on the gun, it is a constant struggle to keep on the target at different ranges when trying to shoot for speed. For example, at 25 yds, I have to aim 7 or 8 inches low to zero in on the bullseye.

So sight height is a consideration regardless of what you get.

The low iron sights don't have nearly the issue and acquisition is quick.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:18 PM
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For plate shooting get a bigger dot. I use 8moa for this and use a 3 or 4 moa dot for hunting. The bigger dot is easier to get on target faster. In plate shooting size does matter.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chim View Post
I've used both open sights and dots on semi-autos and revolvers. Most of the targets were so close that the challenge was speed in target acquisition rather than precision. Some of us bullseye shooters joke that when we get too old to hit the 10-ring with some frequency it'll be time to take up steel shooting.

The one thing I can tell you is that for me, target acquisition is faster with a tube type red dot. I have a number of holo sights and when used on a handgun they are slower than a tube type dot. If I ever get into steel, my starting point will be with a big bright tube type red dot.
I will politely disagree with Chim. For most shooters, the open reflex type sights will be faster in both initial target acquisition and in transitions from target to target. Very, very few of the top 30-40% of Steel Challenge competitors use a tube type sight on handguns and they probably only use them because they are either sponsored by the scope maker or they are keeping costs down by using what they already have..

Since the Contour has a top rail, I would recommend using one of the mini red dots like a Vortex Venom or Viper, a Leupold Delta Pro, or the Sig Romeo 1 with at least a 6 MOA dot. The most common red dot used in Steel Challenge is the C-More Serendipity sight, but with your top rail and the rail mount the C-More or any tube type scope will be very high above your pistol and you will have to spend a lot of time practicing to acquire the dot quickly. The mini red dots will be much closer to the rail and will take less practice to pick up quickly. Typically if you can't find the dot, the pistol will be muzzle high and you'll have to tip the pistol down to find the dot.

Nolan
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:04 PM
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+1 for Match Dot II.
Dial in your brightness and dot size...pricey but well worth the $$$.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:04 PM
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Any of these will work. My favorite is the Delta Point Pro.

Vortex Viper and Match Dot


Leupold Delta Point Pro


Adjustable dot Ultra Dot


Old Tasco ProPoint


Fixed dot Ultra Dot


Bushnell TR 25
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2018, 12:03 AM
Flash_80

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For steel challenge, you're going to either want a C-more Railway/Slideride, or somebody's micro dot. You won't see many tube types out there in that competition, and when you do, it will be somebody new. You will want at least a 6MOA dot, more preferably an 8MOA to be honest. From there, its open season. Opinions galore will come about.

I started with a FastFire III which was a great red dot, but had a small window and I might have trouble finding the dot from time to time. Switched to a C-More Slideride on a John Allchin mount for a Buckmark. That worked well, but the sight sits really high over the bore axis. When I built up a Ruger and ditched my old Buckmark, I bought a Vortex Viper (with Cabelas points, so it cost me like $35), and it did really well, but then I looked through a guy's C-More RTS2 and bought one a day later. I've settled on it. Mine is a 6MOA, and I wish it was an 8, but I got a good price on it.

Also had a DeltaPoint Pro in 2.5MOA, but it doesn't count because the glass sucked on it, and I got rid of it after a week. I've since put another Deltapoint on a 10-22, and I do like it.

To me, the C-More Railway (and equivalents) is in a class of its own. You either like it or don't. Its big and sits high, but it will give you a solid dot that you can change size modules for about $50 each if you ever wanted, and it has the largest viewing window available.

For micro dots, both the Vortex Viper and Venom in 6MOA will work just fine. Stepping up the price a bit puts into play first the Ultradot which is great, but only available in 4MOA. The Sig Romeo1 is a great dot as well, but its a 3 MOA and you are limited in mounting options. Beyond that are the Vortex Razor, C-More RTS2, and Leupold Deltapoint Pro. All of these are great, but they also cost more than the stock pistol half the time. Remember the 7.5MOA triangle Deltapoint is not really a 7.5 MOA thing that you are looking at. Its about a 13MOA triangle that a 7.5 circle could fit in the middle of.

Good luck, don't get a tube.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2018, 12:28 AM
Flash_80

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For reference:

C-MORE RTS2's on 22/45 (Allchin Mount) & Volquartsen LLV4 upper




Vortex Viper on Volquartsen LLV4, Burris Fastfire III (Allchin mount) on 22/45




Sig Romeo1 on Buckmark (B-Square rail)




C-More Slideride on 22/45 (Allchin mount)




Browning Buckmark with C-More Slide Ride (Allchin mount), and window size vs. Fastfire III


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  #12  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
I don't shoot steel particularly, but I'd echo the advice about dot acquisition in a tube sight. I have been using an AT3 Tactical. 2 MOA dot, excellent battery life, and quite rugged. Pleased with it so far.
My wife bought me one for Christmas. I haven't mounted it on my 10-22 yet...it is too cold to go to the range, but come spring..!
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:12 PM
Hank15

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Took her out the other day and shot at an indoor range. It was immediately apparent that my eyes would not get along with the stock sights.

I took out a Matchdot II I had laying around and found that it changed the balance of the gun too much.

So I'm looking at the "micro" red dots. How much of a difference is 4MOA vs 6MOA vs 8MOA?And is the difference in dot acquisition or dot placement? I would love to support Ultradot again since I had such a pleasant experience with the Matchdot II (it was mounted on my Model 41, then my 10/22 takedown).








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Old 12-31-2018, 03:32 AM
Flash_80

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For Steel Challenge, 8MOA is better and it degrades from there, at least for most people. Dot acquisition is the thing. Its apparent, you see it, its over the target, bang. You can get by with a 4MOA dot all day, but you will likely be a hair faster with a larger dot.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:27 PM
Tacoma
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I have 5.5" ( Black Label) Contour that just got married to a Browning Reflex dot mated to it. To be honest, I like this $50 dot better than my $250 Vortex Viper and/ or Burris Fastfire III's. Mainly because the Optics "window" is considerably bigger than the other two. With this optic, the dot is RIGHT THERE when the gun comes up. With the other two ( smaller) optics, I find myself hunting for the dot by twisting the gun or my neck. It's distracting. I guess I could train myself to bring the gun up at the perfect angle but I shouldn't have too.
FWIW, initial quality seems decent. The glass is coated and the controls have a positive feel. POI seems to stay the same when switching from red to green( I really don't use the other recitals other than the 3min dot so can't comment there.) I also like that it uses the same size Allan key for mounting and adjusting. Lastly ( and this is a REAL minor thing) it's kind of cool that it has a Browning emblem on top to match the gun.
No affiliation, yada, yada.....




https://www.opticsplanet.com/brownin...lex-sight.html

Last edited by Tacoma; 01-05-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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