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Rico's 8 ball and Zee Row games.....

8K views 39 replies 5 participants last post by  Clem-E 
#1 · (Edited)
In memory of Rico I want to keep his 8 ball and Zee Row games going in super sport heavy.

8 Ball

1/8", that is, LOL,

well, decided to go ahead and get this off the ground and onto the "table" LOL, nice new green felt,

guidelines are pretty much the same as the 13MM game, cept @ 25 yds; but for a re-fresher;

3 out of 4 groups, pick the best 3

4 rounds per group,

one receiver per entry,

any scope, types of rests are okay,

each group equal to .125 (1/8") or less after subtracting the avg of your 4 single mzrn'g holes, mzrmnts to be done by the shooter,

granted, this will be quite tuff, but some here feel that it is time
to raise the bar, and i think this SHOULD be fun, LOL,

i hope the "guidelines" are clear enuff, but am open to any suggs as usual as this is for everyone, and the ONLY thing that CANNOT be changed is the TITLE,

BTW, whenever anyone qualifies, their name will be posted just like in the other games, and the only duty here will be to polish the rack which will
be made of XXX grade walnut and to keep the felt dusted; powder cannister full, ample supply of chalk for the nxt "shooter", kinda like the "keeper of the hall"

okay, gals and guys, RACK-EM-UP, LOL,

have fun and shoot straight,

would love to try today, but way too windy to try for teeny holes, maybe a bit later,
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Zee Row

This will be a smaller accuracy list than most......I think. To get on it at the lowest level you must shoot 4 groups of 5 shots.

If two of those groups are smaller than .100" you are placed on the 2 ZEE-ROW

If three of those groups are smaller than .100 you are placed on the 3 ZEE-ROW

If four of those groups are smaller than .100 you placed on the 4 ZEE-ROW

Pretty easy huh? As usual you will shoot 1 scoring shot for each group and those scoring shots will be away from any group being measured. A scoring shot starying within 1" of the group will be consider a flyer and part of that group. All targets will be shot at a minimum of 25 yards and ONLY Super Sport rifles are eligible.

Scroll down as there be a page for 2 ZEE, a page for 3 Zee and a page for 4 ZEE

A picture of the target and the rifle are required to post your name on the list.

Good luck.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I guess I will go first. My super sport 10/22 was on it today. Had a great day which inspired me to host the games. A little about it. kidd 16" .920 barrel, Que worked bolt, kidd single stage trigger, currently wearing a weaver v16, kidd recoil assembly and firing pin. all 5 shot groups.



This 8 ball target was shot with eley team.

top left: .203"
top right: .120"
middle: .112"
bottom left: .113"



This 2 zee row target was shot with sk rifle match

top left: .139"
top right: .112"
middle: .088"
bottom left: .090"



and finally, something even the cz 452 varmint that I hold my personal best string of 50 and 100y groups with, but I still haven't been able to accomplish.....
3 zee row.

shot with eley target

top left: .082"
top right: .079"
middle: .219"
bottom left: .094"

 
#13 · (Edited)
That's some good shooting Clem.
I don't think I have ever shot a zero in my life, close a few times.
Don't think allot of people realize that some of these games @ 25 yards are tough stuff, that wind can effect ya & it takes some good ammo.
midwest Swiss
You are so right! Even the 1/4" Game is less than 1 MOA (MOA @ 25 is something like .26175"). Many people have poo pooed that and any other of our 25 yard games.

First of all 25 yards is a pretty common hunting distance for squirrels, rabbits and similar critters so that makes it a practical distance. We are shooting semi auto SuperStock and some of the SuperSport rifles are even lighter even though they have fat LOOKING barrels. I dare anyone to tell me that Ricochet' 8 Ball (.125")or the ZEE Row games are easy! They are not. Even the largest Zee Row of .099" is .02591 MOA

They idea for ZEE Row came when testing a Ruger barrel returned to me after work on it by Skeeter27Red (in fact he numbered it 001). The very first group out of the barrel was a .059" shot with BLAZER ammo!! The answer to the next question is... NO! I never repeated that but came close several times with "good" ammo! :eek::D:eek:


I still have the barrel and it is not more than 5 feet from where I type this!:D
 
#9 · (Edited)
I was having optics difficulties with my annie, I was shooting mid teens with my 452 American. I would get really close to an 8th with it and then boom! so I got irritated, put the bolt guns up and started shooting the 10/22. and wow! I didn't think the ammo was doing it working as well as it could, but I left my 452 varmint at home so that figures. I was surprised the worst group target came from my best batch of ammo, that batch of TEAM. I guess it just goes to show you never know. I have been extremely pleased with this little kidd barrel. shoots really well for a used $125 gunbroker purchase.
 
#10 · (Edited)
took some sk magazine to the range today for my cz. took some fed 719 for the 10/22. it was in the low 50s so I had some heating pads in my range bag. seemed to work as the sk was shooting as well as it normally does in warmer conditions. so I put some sk in the 10/22 to see if it was warm enough to cycle the bolt. cold std vel ammo usually has issues cycling even my low power spring in my 10/22. not only did it cycle perfectly, it shot this....



.066, .096, .115 and .070"
 
#12 · (Edited)
Was it that cool this morning? Really?
WOW!!!!

Nice shooting Clem......

Edit:
Actually I think that is stellar shooting. Are you sure you weren't at the pistol range shooting that one? lol just kidding.

Would like to catch up with you at the range some time.
I'll be going back there Friday morning. Possibly You could give me some pointers ?
Faith, Honor, Family
 
#11 ·
This is Old Brown Shoe.

I just changed my factory barrel, to a Kidd 18"
I think it has a future.
I shot this today at 25yds, with SK RM.
4- 5shot groups ( .086 .177 .174- .097 )
 
#26 · (Edited)
What size motor Clem? Looks like fun to me. I am one of those weird people that enjoy building engines although all mine were Type 1 VW and I had a small business on the side building two stroke kart racing engines.

Take a reliable KT 100 Yamaha that was designed to go a half a season (maybe 25 to 40 hours at 10,000 RPM) and turn it into a 4 hour engine turning 14,500 rpm!!:rolleyes::D:bthumb: That is with all stock parts! Just blueprinting and lot of very "interesting" assembly:rolleyes: Never got busted in Tech though. Ran the same two engines for a season and got one back as a box of parts every post race tech. Everyone KNEW they were illegal but they passed tech every race. Okay so I was sweating the whole time if they would figure it out but it was one of those things that was so BLATANT they never even thought to check for it.

Ran them at the IKF Grand National Championships and got second place against the 300CC Open class (any fuel except hydrazine) with my 200cc "Stock" class (gas and oil) Kart. Was the last race of the year and my nerves could not take it anymore!

Funny part was I ran legal but very fast engines in 200 class and had one "let go" @ 14,200 rpm 45 minutes into a 1 hour race. Not a single salvageable part left if you did not count screws and that stuff. Weird part was the engine blowing up may have saved my life. it was 117 F air temp and I pulled into the pits pulled off my helmet and started getting sick. Meanwhile people were running up to me dumping their coolers on me. They said I was purple! Heat stroke.:( The driving suit below was WHITE on the back when it dried from all the electrolytes I had sweated out. From that day on I drank a qt of Gatorade race morning for breakfast and another qt between then and race and never had another problem.

Bad part is it damaged something in my brain that controls body temp and to this day 30 years later. If I start sweating I can not stop and if I start shivering I can not stop. Broken thermostat the docs say! I really miss racing though.

"Legal" KT 100 engines:


The last "VW" engine I built was a lot like some of the "10/22"s built here. It had exactly ONE VW part in it! The distributor drive gear. Like here the engine was a "Volkswagen" to anyone calling it something! We mounted it in an older 911 Porsche. It was quite a bit faster (and larger displacement) than the 6 cylinder motor we took out. The used Porsche motor almost paid for the new "VW" and the new one was lighter too. The Porsche was a 2200CC the VW was 2500cc or so!
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is more or less a regular road vehicle. I drive it as much as my 2007 diesel pickup.
Bone stock small block 350 with original Saginaw 3 speed manual and open rear with 3.07 gear.

[emoji116]This one is awaiting more attention. [emoji116]
I just put a new motor in it about 6 months ago. Going to take the t350 out and put in a Muncie 4 speed.
Originally
327 w/th400 bucket seat console shift Elcomino 4.10 closed 10 bolt rear
Fairly rare for this car.
Can't wait to get back to work on it.


I can meet up with you first Saturday in November at quail creek. I'll probably be driving the 70 c10 if weather is fair.

Faith, Honor, Family
 
#28 ·
My buddy with the cobra R's used to race shifter carts when we were kids. There is a go cart track (for racing gas carts, not the kind where people go pay to drive electric carts) right next to the drag strip by me.

I had a friend whos dad was a huge VW guy. He loved those things. I helped drop the engine out of one once, it took like 20 minutes. it was pretty cool.

mine is an aftermarket block deal. 416ci. around 12.5:1 compression, solid roller, new profiler sbf heads. I am told by people who should know that it should make between 650-700hp on motor and run 9s in the 1/4 mile in my street car. we built one a few years ago for my buddies car, it was a stock Windsor block 408 with a set of 351 Cleveland heads on it. it made around 670hp on motor and ran 9s in the 1/4 mile.

here is how it launched on motor. this was before we got the rear suspension sorted out



here are some more pics of my small block









 
#29 · (Edited)
That was why I asked Clem because the motor looked too nice to be a stocker. That sounds like an excellent combination. There are just some combos that click like the 383 GM Small block built on 350/327 or one of those blocks. They perform better then the C.I. would indicate just because everything clicks and is a balanced combination of part. Again not much different than a really nice 10/22. It always seemed to me that the engines that went together easy always ran better and the engines you had to fight with never seemed to quite be what you hoped.

I am liking the potential in Peashooter67's El Camino. I am not a big GM fan but the El Caminos, 66 Chevelle, 69 Comaro and that truck body style (is that what they called a "C" or C10 Body?)

My bugs were mostly Baja Bugs for street/off road combination and they WORKED. My best friend got me into it so we had two and we would gather up all the buddies and there Toyota Trucks and full sized trucks and about every 1/'2 hour we would have to stop and take a break so the trucks could catch up and the guys tongues would be hanging out from the beating they were taking but we could go way faster on dirt roads and trails and not get beat up and or bugs were not full on Class 5 off roaders. I drove mine to work or my wife did. My daughter named ours Boogy Bug because if we when fast we were boogying. I would take adults out and not even meaning to scare them badly. She was 3 at that time and practically grew up in that car and no matter how fast I went from then until she was 16 she could never get enough.

If you notice the Kart is a laydown called Enduros in the East and Road Racing in the west we raced on all the big named race tracks. My first race was Riverside Intl (long gone now) and the next was Laguna Seca in Monterey, Ca and home track was Willow Springs and you have seen it in hundreds of TV commercials for anything from sports cars to energy drinks. Built in the side of a mountain 2.6 miles around and something like 260 ft drop from turn 4 to turn 8!! We also raced Sears Point now called Sonoma and we used the more difficult layout the Indy Cars use instead of the weenie layout NASCAR uses:eek::D

Willow Springs many many views:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...raceway&qpvt=willow+springs+raceway&FORM=IGRE

Here is a better view of the driving position. I designed the chassis with a friend and he welded it and the first time we took it out to test we broke the track record by 4.2 seconds!! This was my first drive back after breaking my back over a year before in a fall at Willow!


Yamahas at Willow about 130 to 135 mph. This picture it has Komet reed valve engines and was more like 135-140 mph calculated from RPM-Gear-Tire size. Over 3 G's in the corners and we were faster through the corners than all but the fastest Formula/Indy cars. Of course many race cars killed us on top speed. Only 200cc after all but the biggest thrill I ever had.

Going back to the 10/22 analogy: Many of the same things apply as far as getting everything straight and squared and that kind of stuff is what makes a 10,000 rpm motor turn 14,200 much like when you blueprint a rifle action/barrel to get accuracy. Also what we learned early in SuperStock when you were finished building the rifle the IMPORTANT work started because all the tuning and tweaking is where the Speed/Accuracy come from!

Usually records are broken by tenths of seconds. The funny part was neither of us breaking that record so badly was neither of us had ever driven a twin engine kart before that day! We designed it FOR Willow Springs' high speeds and made it so narrow it was skinnier than most single engines, the craziest part is I designed it knowing I was going to give away handling for top speed because the Championship was coming to Willow the next year. Something went wonderfully wrong because it was the best handling kart we had ever driven! we sold 4 or 5 but we were not really in the kart building business but were engine builders. Sometimes a good chassis makes those engines look much faster like your friends Mustang before and after getting the rear end of the car figured out. So many things kind of interchange with this stuff between rifles and other hi performance machines of what ever kind because the basics are the same.

Earlier we discussed the fundamentals of SHOOTING this kind of rifle. Again their is a likeness because no matter how fast the car is or how accurate the rifle it still comes back to the fundamentals and tweaking those techniques to drive/shoot better. I have always thought that it is not uncommon for people like us to have interests in more than one sport because if you are good at one and know why you are good you can apply those fundamentals in other places sort of like a gymnast and a high diver. When I was first coming up through the ranks in Karate some of our best black belts took dancing, even ballet lessons to learn how to move!! Did seem kind of funny to see some of the best fighters in the U.S. in Ballet tights!:rolleyes::D
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
That really looks fun. I'd like to build a v-twin off road fun cart. Kinda a cross between a go kart and a today weenie off road cart that's all the rage today.

Take a go kart from when we were kids and put a 24 + hp v-twin on it with fat dirtbike tires on it. Stretch it so and adult can fit and give it a little suspension. I think that would be a hoot off road.


Faith, Honor, Family
 
#31 ·
I like those old chevy trucks, but I REALLY like that elky! :bthumb:

we made a bet with some chevy buddies of ours a few years ago. they had a 67 buick skylark, we were gonna race the tan mustang. so we both built engines. the rules were no more than 10:1 compression, pump gas, flat tappet cams. since the mustang was a lighter car we would just run a .040 over 358" Windsor shortblock. they could run a 383. we ran that set of Cleveland 4v closed chambers and they could run some dart heads because the clevelands intake ports were as large as a big block chevy. single carb cast intake of your choice. heads up, run whatcha brung motor to motor.

after they were both built we got to the 1/8th mile track to make some hits. the mustang went 7.30s due to carb problems. but we fixed that and got it to run 7.0s. then I pulled the mufflers off and it went 6.80s.

our buddies made 2 passes in the skylark in the low 8s. put it back on the trailer and went home. we never even raced and the skylark has been sitting since. they don't really want to race us anymore unless its with a 400lb lighter car with a 600ci big block chevy vs the 408. and even that car was only .2 quicker in the 1/8th than the mustang was with the big clevor. the 408 in the mustang went 6.30s@111 and the 598 in the rx7 went 6.teens @ 112. motor to motor. some people just slap stuff together and that never works. lol.
 
#33 ·
the mustang weighed right at 3k lbs. the buick was 3300. so they got 30ci. the rx7 with the 598 weighs 2600 vs the mustang having a 408 and 3k. they have another rx7 with a 434 sbc in it. that car weighs 2450 and only runs 6.40s and .50s@105mph. so the 408 with stock heads and stock block in the car that weighs 550lbs more is running .1-.2 quicker and 6mph faster. pretty sad. and these rx7s are both back half ladder bar cars with 29-13.50 slicks. we are running bolt on stock suspension stuff and 28-10.50s.

I really don't understand how their stuff is that slow. I know a guy who has a 468 in a 67 Camaro that runs 5.70s@117 on motor. the car weighs 3300lbs and it makes somewhere north of 800hp. so I know it can be done. they are all nuts bolts and grease when you get them apart. I would have put a big block chevy in my mustang, but then I would have had to hear people say 'had to put a chevy in it to make it fast.' and that just isn't the case. that and I am not a cross breeder. my z28 had a chevy in it. funny thing is, that thing was a good running stock lt1 in a 3630lb car, made 275 to the tires and ran as good as the buick my buddies built with a aftermarket headed 383. I would love to have a 66-67 nova with a badass little small block chevy. there are a lot of really good 23* heads out there right now.

 
#34 · (Edited by Moderator)
You know it isn't just about cubic inches or this or that.

It all has to match from the water pump to the rear gear and tire diameter/width.

More often it's the wrong torque converter and the wrong rear gears.
Buick probably had higher rear gears and not high enough stall converter.

I've seen an other wise awsome car that just wouldn't go.
Had the right stall and the right rears and it would hook up but was a dowg.
Intake/cam/heads combo wasn't working together.

On paper it looked like it should burn up the track but just went bla.........

Changed out the heads to a smaller intake port with a different shape and bam like a rocket.

Btw: last time I weighed a Chevelle "67" same she'll as a skylark. It weighed in at 3,800 and tag said 3,200. That 5-600 makes a big difference to.


Faith, Honor, Family
 
#35 · (Edited)
we weigh the cars at Northstar, so it was what it was. I believe they had around a 4k rpm converter and a 4.11 in back. the mustang had my budget/junk 347 and c4/converter in it when my friend first got the car done. my 347 in his car ran 6.50s@105 on motor before we built the 'bet' engine. so they should have had some clue what they were up against. :D
 
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