Rimfire Central Firearm Forum banner

Ruger Bisley Single Six Disappointment - Revolver Guys: clues?

7K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  trumph 
#1 · (Edited)
I picked up a Ruger Bisley Single Six. This was, it seems, just in advance of Ruger discontinuing the catalogue item, at least for now. It is a handsome revolver. I had owned a Single Ten once, but never could get it to shoot as well as folks here said theirs did and wound up trading the Single Ten on something else at the LGS. But the .22 LR-only cylinder price of the Bisley model caught my eye, and I have had pretty good luck (after a trip back to the mothership) with a Ruger GP 100 in .22, so I figured I'd give it a shot. While waiting for the weather to clear I got a set of black micarta grips for it, and I mounted an AT3 red dot on a Weigatinny mini-rail to get it all dialed in. Here's a snap of the set-up:



"And then" . . . to quote Bill Murray in Stripes . .. "depression set in."

I was shooting the revolver at 15 yards off an MTM plastic rest. This is a "Y" shaped rest that lets you take most of your shake out of the equation. It is no Ransom rest, but using it I have no trouble putting 10 shots from a S&W 617 or a Ruger Mk III in a group under an inch at that distance. From each cylinder of 6 shots, there was one I just couldn't find. Also the "groups" were horizontally strung. In order to show you all what I mean, I took a biiiiig F-class target and hung it backwards at the 15 yard berm. Point of aim was the black sharpie dot. Here are three different kinds of ammunition (Automatch, Federal Champion, CCI-SV), all exhibiting the same horrible behavior.



These "groups" are six to eight inches wide at 15 yards! And each has a wild flier off to the left, in additional to terrible horizontal stringing. Something just ain't right, but I am not sure how to describe it to Ruger CS. My experiences with Ruger customer service, in general, have been good, but it is just a shame to put a revolver that shoots like this in the stream of commerce. Yuck. And since this was off a well-supported rest, these are the best groups this revolver is likely to produce.

Any theories? A timing problem? A forcing cone problem? A canted cylinder? A badly reamed chamber?

BTW, I am 0-3 on Ruger revolvers, which seems like a Taurus-level of QC at the factory. The GP100 went back for a bad lead-spitting issue. This Bisley couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, from inside the barn.

Edit: got the RMA # and awaiting UPS for pickup tomorrow . . . doesn't seem like a user-servicable issue, if you know what I mean.
 
See less See more
2
#2 · (Edited)
The only thing I can add is I tried one of those MTM rest yesterday for the first time while breaking in my 4 5/8th Single Six . I wound up throwing it in the back of the truck . What little recoil out of the rimfire revolver especially when using 22 magnums , caused the barrel to hop off the rubber V of the rest . I also found it critical to where I placed the barrel into the V .
I went back to resting on the bench with my elbows and my groups tightened up considerably.
At 10 yards with the rest , groups five to six inches , without the rest with Blazer 22lr I was getting groups of around 1 1/2-2” . A lot of times I’d have three or four close to an inch and I’d throw one or two out .
Edit : I’ve found Revolvers are a lot harder to shoot than a semiauto. At 10-15 yards my Mark III and Mark IV 22/45 Lites will stack them compared to my revolver shooting . I just find the revolver shooting more relaxing .
 
#5 ·
The only thing I can add is I tried one of those MTM rest yesterday for the first time while breaking in my 4 5/8th Single Six . I wound up throwing it in the back of the truck . What little recoil out of the rimfire revolver especially when using 22 magnums , caused the barrel to hop off the rubber V of the rest . I also found it critical to where I placed the barrel into the V .
I went back to resting on the bench with my elbows and my groups tightened up considerably.
At 10 yards with the rest , groups five to six inches , without the rest with Blazer 22lr I was getting groups of around 1 1/2-2" . A lot of times I'd have three or four close to an inch and I'd throw one or two out . Kirby
Edit : I've found Revolvers are a lot harder to shoot than a semiauto. At 10-15 yards my Mark III and Mark IV 22/45 Lites will stack them compared to my revolver shooting . I just find the revolver shooting more relaxing .
I hear ya. It has also been noted that semi-autos have one chamber, while revolvers have multiple chambers, each with its own minute variations (down around the limits of the manufacturer's tolerances) . . . that certainly seems to be the case with the (now boxed) Bisley.

In my case, the .22 LR is not posing much of a recoil issue. I have shot the S&W 617 off that rest, and the GP100 too, so I think I can rely on an apples-to-apples sense of how the Single-Six did. In this case, I'll bet dollars to donuts that there is an issue with that cylinder. Seriously, one out of six shots is thrown to the left? Same location on multiple rounds? Got to be a bad chamber. At least that's what I am thinking. We will see what the gnomes at Ruger respond with.
 
#4 ·
First thing I would check is the timing. I use a range rod from Brownells for this. (The only proper tool for the job.) Look at the crown with a magnifying glass. Check barrel cylinder gap. Check the sights. If anything doesn't look right send it back. If everything looks good, shoot a couple hundred rounds of high velocity out of it, then try to shoot groups on paper with standard velocity. Don't modify anything. If it doesn't shoot like it should, send it back and let Ruger fix it.
 
#7 ·
Before you send it back, check it with the iron sights. The Weigatinny could be sliding a bit (as evidenced by the lateral distribution.) Imagine those groups as circles, the same width as the current height, and it isn't bad at all.
 
#9 ·
I think the flier out to the left is a cylinder problem, and should be sent back.
But the rest of the grouping may be movement of the mount. I have the regular length no drill Weig-A-Tinny , and the D+T Weig-A-Tinny. Both of them have a few thousandths play on each side where they come down over the sides of the backstrap. When I mounted them I used a strip of aluminum tape on the inside of the lip on the mount on each side, to shim them centered on the gun. That play could be causing the stinging of 5 of those shots, but not that 6tht one.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Before you send it back, check it with the iron sights. The Weigatinny could be sliding a bit (as evidenced by the lateral distribution.) Imagine those groups as circles, the same width as the current height, and it isn't bad at all.
@Hawkeye/@Saildesign: I will sure give that a look! The mini Weigand rail is not the most robust setup. There is one set screw that goes into the tapped hole for the original rear sight, and another Weigand screw that sort of braces against the top of the receiver for elevation without having a hole tapped for it. It would not take much to get motion there, although my money would be on vertical, not horizontal motion if I were a betting man. Then again, I'm not sure what the heck is going on here. . . :)

My ultimate goal is to shoot the thing with iron sights, but I went the red dot route for diagnostic ease. What I can't figure out is why the general shape of the groups would be so similar as the cylinder rotates though its cycle. I did not number the chambers, but if the rail were moving that much, I don't know why the pattern would repeat again and again over a six shot cycle. I mean, why would the shots "come back" on target for the second or third string . . .My other hope is that Ruger will drop a new cylinder in there and test it before returning it. I did search for "Horizontal Stringing AND Revolver" and Google gave me nothing useful back. . ..
 
#11 ·
I agree to shooting it with the iron sights. If you have very many revolvers, this is where a range rod comes in handy. It not only checks timing, you can also tell if a chamber is drilled off a little. By the time you pay a gunsmith to check timing a couple off times, it would pay for a range rod. I don't have a gunsmith anywhere near me, so sometimes I have to buy the tool and do it myself.
 
#13 ·
Yes, thats it. I bought the rod combo. If you scroll down, you will see one special for s&w K22. s&ws have a tighter bore. I would suggest buying the combo, as a cleaning rod doesn't quite fit properly. I believe the other rod heads will fit the rod, except the 17 cal.
 
#14 ·
If there is bad alignment you can see it by putting a piece of white paper between the cylinder, and firing pin. Then shine a small light in between the cylinder, and barrel / forcing cone from the side, while looking down the barrel. Of The Unloaded Gun . If it is off you will be able to see it.

Is the base pin hard to get out / in ? Lay it on a flat surface, and check it.
 
#15 ·
Dont send it to Ruger with anything except the Ruger parts on that came with it.
I fully agree with shooting it with the iron sights and not on that rest, just get yourself comfortable behind the gun on the bench with maybe some sandbags under your forearms and use a solid two hand hold. Do not cock the hammer with the trigger hand, use the other thumb so you do not upset your primary hold. Single actions are sensitive to variations in gripping the gun.
 
#16 ·
It is going back with only the bits it came with. Reinstallation of the rear sight was pretty simple . . . took about 10 minutes. And off came the micarta grips. The laminate ones that came with the revolver aren't bad. But there's no "bling" to 'em.
 
#17 ·
The white paper and light method works ok on larger cal. like 44 or 45. With a 22 I have a harder time. With a range rod I can feel what my tired old eyes can't see. I would definitely put some rounds down range with the factory sights before you send it back.
 
#19 ·
I agree. It's likely one chamber is slightly off. It doesn't take much. Using a sharpie to mark a chamber, and then shooting a group would be a good way to find out which chamber is off. Then shoot a group with just that chamber. Sometimes I shoot a group with each chamber to see exactly whats going on. I like to be thorough before I send a gun back. I like to explain exactly what I think is going on so they don't misunderstand the problem.
 
#20 ·
One thing not mentioned is the star or ratchet on the back of the cylinder. I don't know if thats the right name. Sometimes there's a burr on one of the teeth. I've had to touch up several of my revolvers VERY lightly with a swiss file. Sometimes a brass brush is enough to get the burr off. Don't go crazy with this. You can mess up things fast!
 
#21 ·
Sent away to Brownells for one of those revolver rods. I have several .22 revolvers, both from S&W and from Ruger . . . even an older H&R Model 99 break barrel. :) Such a gauge will be useful. Many thanks for the tip, trumph.

The Single Six will be picked up by UPS for Ruger today. I am including the original of the target that I posted here . . . shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see that something is seriously off there. Actually, I'll take a competent pistol smith over a rocket scientist to solve this sort of problem any day. My own sense is that an amateur (me) spending a lot of time doing complex diagnostics at home on a brand new revolver is not a great use of time.

I expect a new product,under warranty, to be free of manufacturing defects on Day 1 and not require 1,000 rounds of ammunition run through it to address that defect. In general, Ruger seems to agree with me. That GP100 that I have was off at Ruger and back within a week to address its lead-spitting problem. Here is a group from that pistol off a similar rest at 15 yards after a little TLC at the Ruger mothership:



The initial groups, with lead spitting out the left side of the revolver, were nothing like that. The 617 still edges it:



That's the kind of performance I'd hope for, although the single action on the Single-Six is heavier than either of the other two pistols. But it is early days yet. I'll report back once the revolver has made its round trip.
 
#23 ·
You are welcome. When you check timing, it is important that the hammer, trigger, & cylinder are in the firing position. In other words, hold the trigger down when you insert the range rod. I should go all the way to the recoil shield without stopping. (Unloaded of course, but I know you already know that.)
 
#22 ·
Being there's no gunsmiths near me, and I've often bought used, I've had to figure out things myself. I never really wanted to, but now I kind of enjoy it. Guns are expensive. Even cheap guns are expensive when you think about it. When you buy new, they should work properly right out of the box. They've been making them long enough, they should have it figured out by now. Ruger will make it right I'm sure, but it is a hassle. Be nice if they would give a guy a little ammo for your trouble. I had to send a Springfield XDs back for a recall, and they gave me a free magazine and case. I appreciated that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top