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Old 05-23-2021, 03:44 PM
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Why canít American gun companies compete with Europe regarding high grade .22ís?



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a lot of us here have been at the .22 game for a long time, and remember ( and probably even own ) classic tack drivers like Winchester 52ís and Remington 40xís.is no surprise to anyone here precision.22 matches are becoming hugely popular.

With the exception of the very expensive boutique maker voodoo all the currently popular rifles are European
Bergara (Spain)
Anschutz ( Germany)
CZ ( well it is right there in the name!)
Tikka ( Finland)

I find it surprising no American company has stepped up the game in this regard.

Ruger and savage have made some half hearted efforts, true.

I donít pretend to understand the business and marketing end of the gun business, but a very good quality .22 precision gun is conspicuously absent from any major manufacturers line up.

Any ideas as to why?

Interested in opinions comments and discussion.
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:56 PM
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The gun business, like every other business, is about making a profit for the owners of the business.

The demand for high quality rifles is very low in the US, compared for the demand for "good enough" quality rifles. There is more profit in a lot of "good enough" guns than in fewer "high quality" guns.

If there was no availability of "high quality" guns in the US (complete ban on importation from the rest of the world), someone in the US would fill the gap but at costs equal to, or higher than, current prices of the imports.

It is not that American companies "Can't", but rather that it is not in their best economic interest.
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:58 PM
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Reminds me of the ammo discussion. 10/22s rule!
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Old 05-23-2021, 04:05 PM
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i bet the in house guns are a lot higher volume production than anywhere else.


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Old 05-23-2021, 04:21 PM
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I think the question really is "Why WON'T" American gun companies..." not "Why can't..."

They're perfectly capable, but the bean-counters see more dollars in higher sales of mediocre stuff. Like bulk ammo and 10/22s
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Old 05-23-2021, 04:49 PM
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Ever hear of Kimber or Cooper?
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Old 05-23-2021, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa22Rimfire View Post
Ever hear of Kimber or Cooper?
Yup, Kimber, Cooper, Remington Custom Shop, Dakota, Vudoo, RimX, and several others.... if you want to drop the coin, there are rifles available that will fit your needs at a price...

If you are looking at "affordable" rifles that seem a bit more upgrade, consider where they are made. The higher the level of the economy in the countries where they are made, the higher the prices are going to be. And considering that it is difficult to own several rifles in European countries, many shooters prefer to own one or two high end rifles than a cabinet full of low end efforts....

Bob
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Old 05-23-2021, 06:47 PM
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Well the USA wasnt rebuiilt by a foreign nation after the end of WW2.
Or the means of production managed by the state.
Labor costs while high in some western European nations, were very low in the Eastern block. But both emphasized skilled factory labor over modernization and mass production. The former due to the power of unions, the later due to lack of resources.

Both had access to the US market, and were able to cater to the niche segment of the affluent while the US companies, for the most part chose fulfill the larger and therefore significantly much more profitable market of the middle class.

Simply , sell to the classes eat with the masses vs sell to the masses eat with the classes.

Hows that for a bowl of beans?
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:27 PM
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Every one of my USA made Firearms are great to me..They all do what I ask of them..No complaints here..
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:34 PM
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Additional note, since almost every large industrial complex in Europe was destroyed during the war, and we had built the mightiest mass production facilities known to mankind, it was natural that the US companies continue in the same manner, while Europe relied on small machine shops to rebuild their industrial base.
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Old 05-23-2021, 08:02 PM
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it all comes down to $$ and what you as the consumer is willing to pay.

You will have a different idea on "high grade" and what price will be accept to you to open your wallet or bank. Some will be cheaper than you and want it for way less and some maybe willing to pay more. Everything under the sun is game, but what it comes down to is will the mfg be willing to take a chance on making a gun(s) that may not sell at a price point most or anyone willing to pay.

also, when people toss out fancy/vague words like "best" or "high grade" im not sure if they understand what they want. Will high grade mean "accurate" or "pretty, but shoots like its a laser". Or just "pretty"...so many ways to read into fancy/vague words like that.

I think Cooper makes some semicustom? rifles. have you looked at them and if they meet your "high quality" standards? how about the price? Does your wallet open or pucker? i think there are some others, but again, how does the price make you feel?

good luck

Last edited by bangbang; 05-23-2021 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:08 PM
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Yes there is a price point that most of us will not pay for fancy Firearms..Yes pretty is nice, so is accuracy to point..But a Firearm that shoots a 1 1/2 inch group will have the same end result as one that can shoot a 1/4 inch group... In the real world using a Firearm for its intended purpose, self defense/hunting..Most US Firearms will out shoot most shooters ability anyway..More important than shooting a dime sized group, and beauty, is reliable function, and knowing how to use the tool correctly..

When things really matter..You will not be shooting from a Bench Rest for teeny groups..That is just not the real world. They do not matter much to me if they are 1/4 inch or 1 Inch...Shooting groups from a bench does eliminate most of the Human factor for the person using the tool..But that is cheating anyway And not of much use when it matters in a real situation...

For the large part..Just about every US made Firearm. Be it a Handgun, or Rifle suffice just fine for self defense, putting meat on the table, and having fun..That is the intended use here in the USA for the masses....
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailDesign View Post
I think the question really is "Why WON'T" More American gun companies..." not "Why can't..."

They're perfectly capable, but the bean-counters see more dollars in higher sales of mediocre stuff. Like bulk ammo and 10/22s
Fixed it.

There's some other good points in previous posts for those truly interested in the why's.
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:38 PM
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Firearms companies in the US are no longer owned and controlled by gun people. Gun people tried to make the best product for the money, money people try to make the most money from the product.

You can see the change in quality of all of the old companies who live off of their legacy, not their innovations. In the board room it is always "how can we make it cheaper."
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Al the Infidel View Post
Fixed it.
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