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Old 04-21-2021, 03:51 AM
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Ways around the ammo shortage the .25 acp



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In some respects the UK has always suffered from and is also kind of immune to the ammo shortage.

Over here we have quite strict limits on the amount of ammunition you are allowed to purchase and posses. which in some ways means we will not suffer from ammunition droughts.

However, this can be a pain in the "harris", especially if the gun shop is quite some distance from where you happen to live or you live in a remote part of the world.

Years ago I heard of someone converting a CZ452 to .25acp and whilst this may seem like an onerous task to reload such a tiny cartridge it is the closest thing to rimfire and at least you can get some trigger time.

Has anyone had any thoughts on this?

I imagine it would be quite cheap to reload .25 especially if you cast your own.

IMHO, it would be a good idea for a gun maker to start manufacturing a bolt action in file .25 acp
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:32 AM
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Wouldn't it make more sense to just get an air rifle instead of converting a rifle to another caliber that is still regulated?
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Discontinued View Post
In some respects the UK has always suffered from and is also kind of immune to the ammo shortage.

Over here we have quite strict limits on the amount of ammunition you are allowed to purchase and posses. which in some ways means we will not suffer from ammunition droughts.

However, this can be a pain in the "harris", especially if the gun shop is quite some distance from where you happen to live or you live in a remote part of the world.

Years ago I heard of someone converting a CZ452 to .25acp and whilst this may seem like an onerous task to reload such a tiny cartridge it is the closest thing to rimfire and at least you can get some trigger time.

Has anyone had any thoughts on this?

I imagine it would be quite cheap to reload .25 especially if you cast your own.

IMHO, it would be a good idea for a gun maker to start manufacturing a bolt action in file .25 acp
I've always thought the .25 ACP would make a good short range rifle cartridge for small game.
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:33 AM
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I do not see any advantage to 25acp. Even in a handgun, I like to get upto 32 or better. If the solution to ammo shortage was an easy to reload ctg at the low end, we have the 22 Hornet. There are 2 or 3 other small case bees and wasps,etc... whatever. If someone does want an oddball, a contender barrel is the path of least resistance. I would think even there, a 32 S&W case is better suited. Maybe find the best fit buckshot. Anyone serious today can do 25acp in a contender.

There are also guns by Ruger, Marlin and others in 38/357 which is also easy to load for. This is a very popular round and cast bullets are available, even now in the shortage. Or a person can cast their own.

In all seriousness, a muzzle loader is a way around a lot of obstacles. I believe, a convicted felon can even hunt with a ML. The only (regulated?) component needed is black powder and some survival extremists can make that!

I maybe missing the point, but; expecting the industry to respond with a 25acp rifle seems highly unlikely.
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Old 04-21-2021, 06:18 AM
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If you want to bump up to 32 ACP, there used to be a chamber insert for 308, 30-06 & 30-30 to fire it. Sportsmansguide used to sell them.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:02 AM
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Converting rimfire to centerfire difficult.

Converting a rimfire rifle to take a centerfire cartridge can be done, but why make all the work ? If you want a small .25 caliber rifle get a .25-20 and you can still get cartridges for it I believe. I would bet T/C makes barrels for their guns.

Edit to add to this: "25 Hornet, Gil Sengel reported that 9.0 grains of 2400 with 75 grain bullets generated 2000 fps (once again, in a rifle), while 10.0 grains of 296 produced 2180 fps. A mild load of 4.0 grains of Unique with a 72 grain cast bullet delivered very nice accuracy and 1475 fps." It seems to me having a rimmed cartridge is better than trying to make a rimless cartridge work.

Last edited by David Valdina; 04-22-2021 at 10:52 AM. Reason: add to this.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:06 AM
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Reloading components are hard to come-by during this shortage too. 25 aacp ammo is over $1.00 a round. Small Pistol primers over $.00.10 @.
There are only two choices now , pay through the nose, or wait.

I like25 acp. But its no rifle round. It was designed to shoot out of a short barrel and probably has the bcm of a brick.

If I had to reload it would be 223/556 with a light load and a 40 gr ballistic tip. The brass would last long, and the round would be accurate. And the components Available.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:11 AM
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They say a dangerous plan is better than no plan at all Eddie...however:

The only thing scarcer than reasonably priced rimfire ammo here in the states is small pistol primers at any price.

This my island friend would appear to be a fatal flaw in your rather interesting cogitation

...plus they'd be bloody murder to reload. I did .380 ACP for awhile and that about drove me to drink!

Frank
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:21 AM
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Substitute small rifle primers ok.

You can use small rifle primers in place of small pistol primers. I do this a lot lately and have never had any problems. I have read that the only possible issue is the hardness of the small rifle primer may have some weak firing pin strikes in a hand gun fail to set it off. And different primers have different degrees of hardness, so read up on that if you are going out to buy them. Me, it is just what I had on hand.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:41 AM
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I enjoy thinking about many 'out of the box' ideas.
Interesting thinking about your idea; I'd concur on looking toward some sort of .32 instead - other rimfire guns have been converted to that caliber, and it would certainly be easier to reload for than that little 25.

The other idea I had is that some folks shoot .22 airgun pellets in a number of different centerfire rifles, powered only by the primer.
Its pretty straightforward, and I've always thought that had some intriguing aspects.

The above aren't necessary suggestions for a solution - just thinking out loud like you.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtCrunch View Post
They say a dangerous plan is better than no plan at all Eddie...however:

The only thing scarcer than reasonably priced rimfire ammo here in the states is small pistol primers at any price.

This my island friend would appear to be a fatal flaw in your rather interesting cogitation

...plus they'd be bloody murder to reload. I did .380 ACP for awhile and that about drove me to drink!

Frank
Darrgh foiled again small primers cost that much, it seems they have every angle covered gosh, I used to buy 5k for 30 in 2016

I did reload .38 for a while and it was incredibly cheap the guys on the comp circuit used to all chip in together and we'd buy Vectern shotgun powder( I forget the number) I do recall it costing around 3-5 pence a round obviously theses where low powered for target use

Well I always thought .25acp was a useless round unless you're a spy! I thought for small game and target shooting it could be a viable cartridge

I think you American's have a saying "if you shoot someone with a .25 and he finds out, he's gonna get mad" sorry for the misquote
I used to reload .223 with just a primer and airgun pellets it was surprisingly accurate and with a can it was silent. N.B I used a .308 can as I was worried about baffle strike from a tumbling pellet


I've been scouring the interweb to find this article is saw years where someone actually did convert a CZ452 to .25acp, You'll just have to take my word for it!
I suppose my pipe dream died

32 acp is arguably more viable if you have tiny hands, I have seen chamber inserts for .308 and .303

I still plan on building my mini big game rifle from a .410 side by side and inserting a couple of old .308 barrels, the UK is awash with them due to the popularity of full-bore target rifle and F class.

Interesting comment about the muzzle loader

In the US are black powder guns "off ticket" meaning you need no licence to buy one?

Obviously I'm not a villain, But as a visitor or tourist would I just be able to walk into a gun shop and buy one without being a US citizen? It would be fun to pick up a black widow NAA mini revolver.

Thanks for the replies

Last edited by Discontinued; 04-21-2021 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discontinued View Post

In the US are black powder guns "off ticket" meaning you need no licence to buy one?

Obviously I'm not a villain, But as a visitor or tourist would I just be able to walk into a gun shop and buy one without being a US citizen? It would be fun to pick up a black widow NAA mini revolver.

Thanks for the replies
Correct Eddie. On the Federal level muzzle loading firearms are considered antiques and therefore not regulated by Federal firearms laws.

Things can be different on a state by state basis (New Jersey and Illinois for example) but in general any adult can buy a muzzle loading pistol or rifle without filling out any forms or providing ID. They can also be purchased online or by phone and shipped via US Mail/UPS/FedEx anywhere that such sales are not specifically prohibited by local law.

Getting it through customs on the way home could be a significant problem however

Frank
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Old 04-21-2021, 03:40 PM
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What a fun hobby this is ...

"I still plan on building my mini big game rifle from a .410 side by side and inserting a couple of old .308 barrels, the UK is awash with them due to the popularity of full-bore target rifle and F class."

A man named Searcy (Spelling ?) made up at least one big game rifle on a Ruger 20 ga. O/U gun. There was a good write up in one of the gun magazines. He may have made more. Think Africa big game here. And I remember reading about another similar gun modified as a take it anywhere in the world to hunt everything gun. It had one barrel in something like .375 rimmed and .22 Hornet in the other, the big bore big enough so if you put in the wrong cartridge it would just drop though and out, not get hung up for a tragic mistake. I guess you could just go out and buy a combination gun or a Cape gun and have the same thing. Lastly, I think the .444 Marlin case might be close enough to a .410 to get that to work, except for needing a rifled bore and barrels to take the extra pressure. What a fun hobby this is.
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:03 PM
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I recall a fellow at the G&A forum that made a single-shot bolt action rifle in .25ACP just for the sake of it. Think he used assorted parts he had floating around his shop plus a new barrel he got from Midway or so.
Remember he said it had a surprisingly better performace than what he expected and even managed to hunt some small game with it. Both with factory and reloads he seemed to had a blast with it!

Think it's an absurd cost-effective endeavor, not to mention what the round could do compared to a .22LR or even a .22WMR but if you can....why not?

Some shooting buddies have temporarily "solved" at least the .22LR ammo dilemma by switching to PCP. Inbplaces where there are no legal limits to the energy those guns can develope it seems like a sound decision, specially if you like to shoot a lot.
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Old 04-21-2021, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discontinued View Post
Over here we have quite strict limits on the amount of ammunition you are allowed to purchase and posses.
How many rounds of 22 are you allowed to have in possession? Here in the states we usually have no limits and so an extra few bricks is much cheaper than trying to reload any other cartridge.
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