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Old 04-20-2021, 06:15 PM
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Quandry?



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I just ordered a CZ 457 American in .17HMR. Not because I wanted an HMR, but because I wanted another 457 and that's all that I could find that wasn't out of stock. I have a few 457 barrels in .22LR and one in .22WMR to swap into the new receiver. But now I'm thinking -- what are the relative merits of the HMR vs the WMR? I know the HMR shoots flatter, but is it really all that more accurate than the WMR? Quite a long time ago I had a .17HM2 and found it a giant PITA to clean with that tiny bore. I know there are big fans of both the WMR and the HMR, but do any of you have much experience with both that you could say, yep, go with ____ ! Net, net, should I keep the .17HMR barrel or the .22WMR barrel? (Both are threaded and I have a can, but one is definitely going to go.) Maybe I should post this in the .22WMR forum too?

Doug
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Old 04-20-2021, 06:35 PM
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I shot a member's CZ 452 in 17HMR and it may have been the most accurate rimfire I ever shot. I was sick when he sold it and I missed that chance. Especially accurate at 200 yards.

I know it was a 452 but I think the barrels are the same.
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Old 04-20-2021, 06:40 PM
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It has been awhile since I owed a wmr and it was accurate for the time frame when I shot it. I now have two hmr rifles and either are more accurate than the wmr ever was. I donít plan on ever owning a wmr again. I donít consider either adequate for a humane kill on anything larger than a jack rabbit unless you are really close.
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Old 04-20-2021, 07:16 PM
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Doug, I don't have the 17WMR, but I do have the 17hmr and the 17 hornet. WMR would sit right in-between those two. There are many questions I would ask before I gave much advice. What do you plan to use it for? How far do you plan to shoot? Do you reload? What other rifles/calibers do you have in your arsenal? Etc. Etc. Etc.

I have not been impressed with the rifles that are available in 17WMR. For that reason alone I would purchase something else and wait for a better rifle. In the beginning the 17wmr ammunition was quite problematic, problems with both the case and accuracy. Ammo may be getting better now. The biggest advantage to the 17wmr is that its high velocity and disposable brass make it a pretty good gun for colony critters and small game like fox and bobcat.

Where the 17wmr loses out for me is that the 17 hornet is faster, more accurate and more versatile as it can be loaded faster or slower or with a greater variety of bullets. Of course this is only if you reload. If you don't reload then the 17wmr may be a good option if you are shooting high volume colony critters. Because of the low BC of all 17 caliber options, shooting long distance is not really its strongest point. And because of that target shooting with 17 caliber is not that great either.

I shoot out to about 100 or 125 yards with my 17HMR on rabbits, and out to about 150 yards on prairie dogs or ground squirrels. Beyond that it just doesn't have enough gas. On the other hand, I shoot out to about 250-300 yards with my 17 Hornet. Accuracy suffers at that distance as the wind is usually blowing bullets off target. If CZ had a barrel and a bolt adapter for the 17wsm then I would probably own one, but I would not buy a dedicated rifle if I had something else (17 or 22 hornet, 222 or 221Fb,etc.). Don't know if this rambling helps at all. If you reload, just get a CZ 527 in 17hornet. Burt
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:29 PM
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Thank you for the lengthy reply, Burt. But actually I was looking for a comparison between the .17HMR and .22WMR. I'm afraid my abbreviated WMR term was misleading. I have reloaded centerfire for many years (10 different rifle calibers and three handgun calibers and four shotgun gauges), and shot BR for years, especially the PPC cartridges. But over the past 10 to 12 years have moved almost exclusively to rimfire, nearly all .22LR. I have but one CF rifle left -- a Cooper 38 single-shot in .22 Hornet. I guess I'm saying there's no going back to CF.

I had a Ruger 77/22 in .22WMR for years and even re-loaded for it using Cooper CCM dies (actually just pulled the lead bullets from the cases and replaced them with, say, a 40 gr. V-Max or Ballistic Tip). I found that they were considerably more accurate with such quality bullets. The downside is that they were too long to fit in the magazine and had to be loaded like a single-shot.

While I don't hunt anymore (though a day in the squirrel woods would be great), I do really appreciate an accurate rifle and shooting at 100 yards would be fun with such a rifle. I expect that a .17HMR would be more accurate at 100 yards than either a .22LR or .22WMR (rifle and ammo dependent). I guess my question is whether it's worth the additional hassle of adding another caliber, and especially cleaning a .17 caliber bore.

Doug
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:33 PM
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None of the magnum rimfire cartridges are intended for precision paper punching.
All are hunting and varminting cartridges. Center of critter accuracy is not a problem.
Consistent sub moa is unlikely due to the manufacturing process and minimal quality control.
Fairly hefty mv spread and differences in cartridge assembly show up as strays on paper.

I have no problem with copper fouling with any of the magnum rimfires, wmr, hmr, wsm.
I clean after every use. Of the three, the 17 hmr is my preferred 200 yard rimfire cartridge.

Last edited by jaia; 04-20-2021 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:54 PM
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The paradox . . .

. . . is that it seems everyone's .17hmr or .22wmr rifle shoots "lights out", but everyone's
.17hmr or .22wmr ammo is, "meh, . . . hunting accuracy, not match ammo, what can you expect?".

Not quite sure how those two things both hold true . . .?

But of the two, my money would be on the .17hmr.

Good luck!

Last edited by NVaVettes; 04-21-2021 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:11 PM
jaia
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How to determine which claims of accuracy are correct?

Ask to see all of the results, from the entire box of 50.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:12 PM
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I was stand offish for years thinking the .22 mag ruled and if not the .222 would in the gophers fields until i shot my grandsons...and WOW did i ever change my mind.

I bought Anshutz cause i wanted the best, 3rd or 4th season in the field, clean with a Patch worm

Easy peasey...shoots like a laser and blows them to pieces...I like that
..No crawl offs
..even with 20-25mpg wind, 100-125 yd shots, if you shoot with it, the round flys pretty straight, very seldom bring the .222 or .223 along anymore.

Just buy it Doug, you'll like it, no hassle of adding another caliber
.. guaranteed


pipestone
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jaia View Post
How to determine which claims of accuracy are correct?

Ask to see all of the results, from the entire box of 50.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:19 AM
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Just my opinion and experience, but l would choose the 17 HMR. I have both calibers and have used mostly for critter control. While the wmr is harder hitting, l have found the hmr to be more accurate at all distances.

The 17 HMR. is my favorite cal. to shoot.

Best of Luck
Wonderdog1
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2021, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr65 View Post
I know the HMR shoots flatter, but is it really all that more accurate than the WMR?
Congratulations Doug! And to your question I'll pose another. Have you ever had a rifle/cartridge combination that was so inherently accurate that it made you giggle after every shot?

Bet you do now

Frank
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:32 AM
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I believe we're talking about the expected accuracy of .22 Win Mag vs. .17 HMR Uncle Al.

What we need is a few more 3 letter designations for rimfire variants!

Hippity Happity Hump Day!

Fronk
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr65 View Post
Thank you for the lengthy reply, Burt. But actually I was looking for a comparison between the .17HMR and .22WMR. I'm afraid my abbreviated WMR term was misleading. I have reloaded centerfire for many years (10 different rifle calibers and three handgun calibers and four shotgun gauges), and shot BR for years, especially the PPC cartridges. But over the past 10 to 12 years have moved almost exclusively to rimfire, nearly all .22LR. I have but one CF rifle left -- a Cooper 38 single-shot in .22 Hornet. I guess I'm saying there's no going back to CF.

I had a Ruger 77/22 in .22WMR for years and even re-loaded for it using Cooper CCM dies (actually just pulled the lead bullets from the cases and replaced them with, say, a 40 gr. V-Max or Ballistic Tip). I found that they were considerably more accurate with such quality bullets. The downside is that they were too long to fit in the magazine and had to be loaded like a single-shot.

While I don't hunt anymore (though a day in the squirrel woods would be great), I do really appreciate an accurate rifle and shooting at 100 yards would be fun with such a rifle. I expect that a .17HMR would be more accurate at 100 yards than either a .22LR or .22WMR (rifle and ammo dependent). I guess my question is whether it's worth the additional hassle of adding another caliber, and especially cleaning a .17 caliber bore.

Doug
Hornet...my CZ 527 American in a maple stock is the only CF I have shot in years. 1/2 MOA with my handloads is pretty easy. Under 3/4 MOA with Horn factory stuff.

As for the 17HMR being more accurate than the 22LR I think that has some problems. The rifle in my avatar, a gift from RFC members even though I ended up building it thinking it was for someone else, has shot 23 straight groups under 1/4" in a row. Was still going strong but the Eley was getting expensive so I quit. That is under 1/2 MOA.

Not sure even that CZ 452 mentioned earlier would beat that by much. With more range the 17HMR is easier to hit with but not more accurate at least by much. I never shot a 22 Mag that would shoot as good as either.
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtCrunch View Post
I believe we're talking about the expected accuracy of .22 Win Mag vs. .17 HMR Uncle Al.

What we need is a few more 3 letter designations for rimfire variants!

Hippity Happity Hump Day!

Fronk
Yes!
I picked up a used semi-auto Volquartsen Classic in 17HMR that had been collecting dust at an lgs for over a year.
Got a good deal on it, accurate as a laser, and I've giggled out loud...
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