50 at 200 - Page 63 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

Go Back   RimfireCentral.com Forums > >

Notices

Join Team RFC to remove these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #931  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:23 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)


Log in to see fewer ads
After taking to doing visual inspections on the rimfire ammo I've been trying
and commenting on how the results on target matched the visibly poor cartridge quality,
I was pointed at another publication regarding ballistics and accuracy.
Another worthwhile read if y'er interested. Link to the pdf...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10s...hBmyxInpSXMAC6

Chapter 9 regarding projectile balance caught my attention, page 169


....and another one brought to my attention...

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...e-box-o-truth/

Verrrrrryyyyyy interesting, eh?

Last edited by jaia; 11-15-2019 at 04:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #932  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:21 PM
Taterchip

Join Date: 
Jun 2017
Location: 
Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 
1,190
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
I am currently enjoying reading this very much, thanks for sharing
Reply With Quote
  #933  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:32 PM
Taterchip

Join Date: 
Jun 2017
Location: 
Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 
1,190
TPC Rating: 
100% (1)
If you search YouTube for the AT&T archives Similarities in wave behavior. This seems to offer an explanation for the behavior on page 50 that the gentleman said dumbfounded him. Sorry I don't know how to post the link, but this is a very interesting video. I found this while seeking clearer understanding of standing waves on radio transmission lines but it seems also relevant to barrel vibrations
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #934  
Old 11-23-2019, 01:06 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
All sorts of good stuff on YouTube, taterchip.
Some strange stuff too...things I don't want to see.

Last edited by jaia; 11-23-2019 at 07:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #935  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:45 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Eley Practice 100 40 grain 22lr rated 1062 fps

CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod




Quick inspection showed uniform appearance, minimal dents or dings.
Rolling on a flat surface indicated the flat tips weren't all square to the center line of the cartridge.
Visible wobble of the top edge of the bullet nose on some of the cartridges.



Vertical spread matches the ES, lateral spread is due to the crosswind.
Unpredictable puffs blowing across the range that the flags didn't show.


Next box of 50 showed the same nose irregularities when rolled.



As the wind increased so did the lateral spread.



From the 2 boxes, 21 fail to fires. Extracted, rotated, rechambered, all went bang
...on the second or third or fourth try. Not Eley's best.



SK Magazine sent at the steel plates had no fail to fires.
Not the rifle, either Eley is having problems with primer,
or shipping and handling is bumping and banging primer out of the rim.

Last edited by jaia; 11-23-2019 at 08:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #936  
Old 11-24-2019, 02:35 PM
Al the Infidel's Avatar
Al the Infidel
US Marines Disabled American Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jan 2007
Location: 
Yoopersville, MI
Posts: 
1,013,129
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
SK Magazine sent at the steel plates had no fail to fires.
Not the rifle, either Eley is having problems with primer,
or shipping and handling is bumping and banging primer out of the rim.
I use to tap my semi's 22 rf mags to seat the rounds until it dawned on me one day they were more fragile than than my cf semi ammo primers. Duh! Didn't do any good with CCI Quiets @ 710 fps tho.
__________________
The better you are, the luckier you will be. +
Reply With Quote
  #937  
Old 11-25-2019, 08:09 AM
jdc606

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Posts: 
14
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
After taking to doing visual inspections on the rimfire--Verrrrrryyyyyy interesting, eh?
Sorry to hi-jack but you started it. Really enjoy this [email protected] thread and appreciate you publishing your findings. The chapter 9 about unbalanced bullets effect on accuracy is something I've considered but is a rabbit hole I don't want to go down. I've noticed on some Eley Match that the bullet lube isn't uniformly applied.

What if someone (not me) were to use 0000 steel wool to remove all the blotchy lube above the bullet band?
The reason I try cheap ammo is because I have been equally disappointed with mid/high end ammo (.23 rd) while pleasantly surprised with cheap (.05 rd) stuff. I can not justify to myself or my wife .35 rd ammo unless winning big bucks in shooting matches was my profession.
Reply With Quote
  #938  
Old 11-25-2019, 08:54 AM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Sorry to hi-jack but you started it.


There is no hi-jacking the 50 at 200 thread.

Any and every topic that affects results is worth hashing out.


I've attempted cleaning and re-lubing low quality rimfire.
Had no useful effect except to kill time at the range.

Poor quality ammo will not produce consistent results.
You may get a box that is better than the usual production and surprise y'erself,
but the only ways to obtain decent results are to:

1) Buy the best ammo you can afford.

2) Keep what y'er trying to hit really close to the muzzle.
Reply With Quote
  #939  
Old 11-25-2019, 03:33 PM
Szumi's Avatar
Szumi
US Marines NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Jun 2011
Location: 
Between Hell and Paradise
Posts: 
1,320
TPC Rating: 
0% (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaia View Post
A few months ago, I tried some Winchester M22.
Made two attempts. Many problems. Sent an email to Winchester customer service
with attached pics of the problem cartridges. They sent me a shipping label
and had the remainder of the 1000 cartridges picked up and returned to the factory.
Winchester has mailed a refund check and apologized for the irritation caused.
Took a while, but it was taken care of. Good enough.
I bought 1000 rounds of M22 back during the shortage. Case head separations with my fairly new Colt/Umarex/Walther gold cup and even with my solidly reliable Ruger MKII pistols. That stuff was absolute garbage. I need to dispose of the remaining ammo, I'm not willing to shoot it.
__________________

If you like your Constitution, you can keep your Constitution.
Reply With Quote
  #940  
Old 11-25-2019, 08:06 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,592
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
Contact Win., there is NO reason you should have to 'eat it'.
Reply With Quote
  #941  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:01 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
I like the phrase "random act of accuracy".
Burning up some Eley Action at 200 yards and had one happen.
5 shot groups at individual aimpoints with the usual 3 to 5 inch spread
and had one group that was sub-moa. Not what I expected
from cartridges that showed a few dents, dings and scratches.
Must of hit a run of better than average quality cartridges.





1.25 inches for 5 shots at 200 yards.
Lemme see here...half third rule, eh?

200 yards...1.25"
100 yards...0.42 inches
50 yards...0.14 inches

Yep, that there is one of those random acts of accuracy.

Certainly not worthy of an "all day long" claim.
Reply With Quote
  #942  
Old 11-29-2019, 08:19 PM
gcrank1's Avatar
gcrank1

Join Date: 
Apr 2018
Location: 
south central WI, USA
Posts: 
3,592
TPC Rating: 
100% (3)
If, in that brief period of time you shot that 'wallet group', you had been buying a lottery ticket instead I cant help but wonder.......
Reply With Quote
  #943  
Old 11-29-2019, 08:29 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
That was an evil thought crankster.

I liked it.
Reply With Quote
  #944  
Old 11-29-2019, 10:45 PM
Pat McCoy
US Army Veteran NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Mar 2010
Location: 
Central Montana
Posts: 
774
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
This is a good example of why averaging 5 shot groups can give an inaccurate picture of what the rifle/ammo combination will do. The aggregate group can't be smaller than the largest group. Also, sometimes the groups will "wander" around the aiming point while staying consistently small, and the aggregate group will be larger than the verge of all groups.
Reply With Quote
  #945  
Old 11-29-2019, 10:53 PM
jaia
NRA Member - Click Here To Join!

Join Date: 
Apr 2014
Posts: 
6,006
TPC Rating: 
100% (2)
Pat, tip of the hat for the use of verge.

I had to check the usage to verify y'er intent.

Last edited by jaia; 11-29-2019 at 10:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.

Privacy Policy

DMCA Notice

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2000-2018 RimfireCentral.com
x